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EB3 pickup Ohms

EB3 pickup Ohms
« on: August 26, 2007, 11:00:49 AM »
Allparts sells replacement EB pickups that are rated at 8 and 10K Ohms resp., - what should original/vintage 70s pickups rate at?
My 1973 or '74 bridge pickup is at just below 7K, and the neck pickup's coils are 1 1K Ohm EACH, strangely enough - are these ok, or should they be repaired? I haven't had a chance to connect these yet to try them out (having the bass refretted now), and will probably be having them rewound - but to what specs, I am not sure yet.

Oskar

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2007, 01:52:16 PM »
I just checked my 60's EB neck pup and it reads 28 k.  I think this is more like what they should be.  Anyone else?

jules

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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2007, 03:31:01 PM »
Hi Oskar and welcome

Most of the neck pickups I have measured have been around 30K + 2k. Having said this the coils are supposed to have varied over the years - however there is no real hard data on this. The ones I have measured have been pre-73. There have been rumours of a significant change in the mid seventies, but I have not measured a mid-late seventies EB humbucker.

Whats the total resistance of the neck pickup? I suggest you try it as is, and see how it sounds. If it were broken i'd expect each of the coils to have a different resistance.

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 04:08:58 PM »
I got put in my place on another forum for mentioning the mudbuckers on my Epiphone Elitist and EB3L measured only 1.15k along with a replacement mudbucker bought in the late 70s, while the mudbuckers on my early 60s EBs were around 30k.
This is typical of what I was told.

"I'm not saying this to embarass you, but there is no way your readings are correct. Either you are touching your probes to the wrong places or your meter is broken"

and,

"There are a lot of pickups out there I haven't measured personally. I still know what the range of specs should be. And I know enough about passive magnetic pickup design to know that 1.15-1.17K is not a spec for a working guitar or bass pickup."

These pickups are fully working, I did not measure them wrong.
I thought I was bringing up something of interest but I was shot down.
I would like to know if anyone else has measured an Epiphone Elitist or EB3L mudbucker, enough people have them, come on, get your meter out and lets see.
Pete

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 04:19:26 PM »
thanks, Goingdownslow - I see no reason for these pickups to be ca 1K Ohms, but both coils are identical in Ohm - hence the pickup must be made to be like this. will post more in a few days once I've hooked the pups - sounds like my pickups are identical to yours?!

interesting that vintage neck humbs are around 30K, and modern versions are around 10K - I imagine it's very different wire being used nowadays?

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 06:15:43 PM »
I rechecked mine and it's actually 30.1 k.  So, that's about where they typically are and should be if they are vintage.

eb2

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EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 12:54:16 AM »
They seem to have either toned down the woof in the early 70s or changed the wire/windings.  One thing for sure that Gibson started doing was to change the materials.  60s mudbuckers have coils constructed of thin fibre material, and 70s used a semi-clear plastic for the bobbin.  The design layout is identical, but I am not the guy to figure out what effect things had, or what differences were in wire, magnets, etc.  Me no smart enuf to do express self elektronically.

One of the things that I have seen happen is that there is a way to read a mudbucker and get the reading dead wrong.  I have written here about it before.  There is something (setting on multimeter?) that causes a half or less output reading.  The last one I bought on ebay was listed as really weak, possibly blown.  I got it home and hooked it up, and there was the ole 28k reading.  I don't know what that is, but that is what it is.
boom

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2007, 01:39:58 AM »
I can't imagine getting an incorrect reading if you're touching both leads properly with the probes.  But I'm sure anything can happen when people are involved!!!  :?

and the back pickup?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2007, 08:41:03 PM »
how much should a treble/bridge pickup be at Ohm-wise? mine is at 6.8K.
but strangely, when tapping the pickup with a screwdriver, there is no sound from where I would imagine there should be a second coil with polepieces.

eb2

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EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 08:48:07 PM »
The lead pup is about right.  It is a pretty sad compliment to the mudbucker.  It is actually a guitar pickup that Gibson used on Epis and Gibson Firebird guitars.  The coils themselves are arranged in a standard guitar humbucker layout, and the coils themselves are open in the middle - no fixed pole pieces - so it made it easily adapted for bass.  You get no real click as the middle on the covered pup is filled with a slug.  Just a weak reverse field to give the humbucking effect really.  If you want to beef up your EB3 without altering it in a non-reversible way, you could get the hot Duncan and DiMarzio Firebird/LP Deluxe replacement pups, which tend to blow out the 10-15k range.  That has been my plan for my project EB3, at any rate.  Better mate for a mudbucker.
boom

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2007, 09:07:52 PM »
thanks, that clears it up. a slug, interesting.
when you say Firebird pickup you mean a mini-humbucker, right?
(I have one made by DiMarzio, and it is slightly longer than the EB bridge p.u.)

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2007, 10:00:37 PM »
One thing to watch for when playing around with mudbuckers is the magnet orientation. They are not opposite poles as in most humbuckers.
This wrong magnetic orientation could also be an answer to a "weak" pickup that still has a 28-30k reading.
Pete

Dave W

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EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2007, 10:21:14 PM »
Quote from: Goingdownslow
I got put in my place on another forum for mentioning the mudbuckers on my Epiphone Elitist and EB3L measured only 1.15k along with a replacement mudbucker bought in the late 70s, while the mudbuckers on my early 60s EBs were around 30k.
This is typical of what I was told.

"I'm not saying this to embarass you, but there is no way your readings are correct. Either you are touching your probes to the wrong places or your meter is broken"

and,

"There are a lot of pickups out there I haven't measured personally. I still know what the range of specs should be. And I know enough about passive magnetic pickup design to know that 1.15-1.17K is not a spec for a working guitar or bass pickup."

These pickups are fully working, I did not measure them wrong.
I thought I was bringing up something of interest but I was shot down.
I would like to know if anyone else has measured an Epiphone Elitist or EB3L mudbucker, enough people have them, come on, get your meter out and lets see.

The other forum was the original Dudepit on ezBoard, and you're talking about me. My purpose wasn't to "put you in your place", but to prevent incorrect information from being spread.

It wasn't just my own experience. I called Gibson and spoke to someone in the tech department. I was told that your readings were nowhere remotely near correct, although IIRC they didn't have an official published number.

I was referred to a electronics tech in the service department of one of Gibson's largest dealers. He not only said your readings couldn't be correct, he had two or three Epi versions there and said they measured well above that.

And then I talked to a custom shop pickup maker. Same answer.

It's been several years and I can't remember which, but one of them told me that a 1.1K reading for two series-connected coils would be a low impedance pickup, like a larger two-coil version of the Les Paul low impedance series. If that were true, you'd need a high impedance switch or transformer.

Since then I've read that the late-70s Gibson versions were possibly wired with 38 gauge wire instead of Gibson's usual 42, but I haven't been able to confirm this. The early Gibson Charlie Christian (guitar) pickups were wound with 38 gauge onto a large single coil, and I believe they read in the 3-4k range. So if this is correct, I would expect the late-70s sidewinder versions to read in the 6-8k range.

As always, I could be wrong. But without some independent verification, I'll go with what others have reported and with what the experts say.

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2007, 12:28:01 AM »
Dave, actually, his first quote was me, and it was DP II.  I didn't mean to shut him down either, just to let him know that that measurement couldn't possibly be right (for a vintage mudbucker)... and anyway, he eventually conceded to the fact, or so I recall.

You have to understand that 1.5K is a very low reading - the vast majority of pups - even cheesey Japanese single-coils - are at least 4-5K.  

I have 3 mudbuckers in front of me right now.

1965: 28.8K
177?: 31.1K
199? Epi: 1.23K

That was surprising, but there you have it.  The Epi/Allparts pup is what you have (the cover, fyi, is identical to the 70s one, right down to the spacing of the holes, so I wouldn't be surprised if some unscrupulous folks sold them under false pedigree - the vintage ones are easy to spot if you know what to look for).  Goes a long way as to explaining why the Epi EB3 sounded so lame to me.  I suspect that the coils are wired in parrallel vs the usual series.  

The variation in mudbucker readings, especially in vintage ones is probably more to do with production tollerances than period variation; 2K here or there on a 30K coil is only 6.6%... they wound them by hand back then so no 2 were exactly alike and +/-6.6% variation was to be expected.

EB3 pickup Ohms
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 07:47:24 PM »
Hi all, I'm new here.

I bought an All Parts EB-3 type neck pickup last week off eBay.co.uk which was being sold as a buy it now by a private seller for £20. It was stated as bought new for a project that never materialised and thus he was selling it on as new. I had originally looked on All Parts UK website for this pickup, but it was out of stock and there was anything from 3 to 8 weeks wait for manufacture, so when I saw this one on eBay, I snapped it up. When I received the item, the fly lead had 4 wires. Red, White, Green, and a Screen. The green and white wire had been soldered together and was turned back up the outside of the fly lead covered with heat shrink sleeving. The screen had been trimmed short and tinned, and the Red wire protruded about 2'' from the end of the fly lead and also tinned. When I tested the ohm reading it was 6.6K which I was none too happy about as All Parts clearly state it to be 10K. I phoned All Parts UK and explained about the pickup and asked them to verify that theirs were in actual fact 10K as they describe. Unfortunately the guy at All Parts could only give me the stated figures as they had none in stock. I have posted the pickup back to the seller today as misrepresented, as I suspect it to be an Epiphone pickup placed in the All Parts wrapping (as it had been opened and taped up). The thing is, this pickup still had that plastic film over the chrome for protection that you are supposed to peel off and the guy at All Parts confirmed that the colour coded wires were the same (although I suspect that the two coils have been joined and the screen cut for installation) and the guy who I bought this from, swore that this was how it came out of the packet and he had never installed it. I am intending to order one from All Parts as soon as this guy from eBay refunds my payment, but has anyone ever bought one of these pickups from All Parts and if so can you confirm that they are 10k as they state and not 6.6K. I have a Mudbucker coming from the States from a guy who rewinds pickups, which he says is and Epiphone now rewound to 12.3K and I couldn't really see a 6.6K bridge pickup mating in with this too well. Also if anyone can suggest another supplier of an EB-3 replacement Bridge pickup, I would be most grateful.

Martin.

PS. These pickups are for a renovation / up-grade of an old 70's Antoria EB-3 Japanese copy. I am also looking for a suitable adjustable bridge to mate up with the narrow string pitch of 16mm. Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 07:52:33 PM by umpdv5000 »

 

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