Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions

More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« on: August 02, 2007, 06:15:57 PM »
Hi everyone, apologies for the double post is anyone has already read this...

Anyone happen to know which era mudbucker would fit the new SG reissue bass?

Now that my 1965 EB-0 is here:
1965 Gibson EB-0

...I'm faced with the dilemma of whether to return the SG reissue which I bought a couple weeks back, and restore the EB-0, maybe adding a bridge pickup in the process, OR keep the SG reissue and switch out some of the electronics to bring it closer tonally to the original (in addition to the mudbucker and maybe the bridge pup as well, the internal electronics seem a little weird...strange bump in the volume pots, etc.).

Any thoughts?

The 1965 EB-0 I now own feels great, but the neck on the new reissue is just perfect, and I'm picky as hell about that. The '65 EB-0 is hard to fret without buzzing between notes when I lift off the string...any thoughts on what causes this? I had the same issue on an old Japanese P-bass copy. Makes playing lines and riffs annoying, since there is always a lot of clanking/fret buzz when I move from note to note. I'm going to try some new, lighter strings tonight and see if that helps.

Also, anyone happen to know what sort of finish they use on the new SG reissue basses? I read somewhere that it was nitrocellulose, but mine seems like it may be polyurethane...hard to tell, but I do love the way the thinner finish wears over time.

Thanks again and again,

--- Joe

eb2

  • ****
  • 456
    • View Profile
More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 06:42:16 PM »
That is an interesting dilemma.  I guess the first order is to pop off the guard and the later pup off your 65 and see what is under there.  If all you have is one or two screw holes where there shouldn't be, and the neck and headstock have never been broken, then I might be inclined to consider a restoration project.  With filers, light opaque and good tinted nitro, it is possible to make those dissapear.  I haven't mastered it, but know pros who can.  Looks like all you need is an old pup, guard and two knobs, so there you go.  Not that the old pup and cover are easy as days go by.

Frets clicking and buzzing is a headache of the neck straightness and bridge height/intonation.  The neck is easy, but the bar bridge is a matter of getting it as close as you can.  You can tweak it a lot more than you would think, but it does have its limitations.  I know intonation and fretboard picky players, and it is tough being that way.  LPjrs and Specials drive them crazy.  EB0s would be a bad trip.

I don't know about switching the newer stuff in.  I know Gibson will not sell the SG bass pup or cover as I asked.  If your pots are not original, then the world is your oyster: you can do lots of sleeper mods.  As usual I refuse to dump on the DiMarzio model one, as it provides a pup that is at least ok and you do not alter your bass to use it.  And you can do all sorts of wiring tricks with it.  Just say NO to mini-toggles.

I think newer SG basses are not nitro.  I could be wrong, but I can't see why they would use a premium finish on a not-premium or custom shop instrument.  The two I played "felt" like a poly finish.
boom

Dave W

  • ****
  • 433
    • View Profile
More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2007, 07:36:00 PM »
It's nitro. Gibson has never stopped using nitro. But thanks to the EPA, OSHA and probably other bureaucrats, it's not your father's nitro.

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Re: More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 11:34:39 PM »
Quote from: luckylarry
The '65 EB-0 is hard to fret without buzzing between notes when I lift off the string...any thoughts on what causes this?


Fret buzz on open strings indicate a new nut is needed. Buzz up the neck is usually due to a too low bridge. Raise the bridge and adjust truss rod if required.

Take it to a guitar tech for a set up if you are unsure - well worth doing

More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 04:50:17 AM »
Thanks, this gets into a whole other realm than I've discussed on this forum, but the kind of buzz I'm talking about is not buzz while the note is fretted, it's rather buzzing after the note is released.  Like the noise that's made if a note isn't fully fretted with enough force, but exaggerated.  I don't know mechanically why this happens sometimes, i.e. on certain basses, while others seem to be free of this issue.  I can say I've seen it more on older basses, so maybe it has something to do with warping?

Speaking of which, the neck on my new (old) bass!  Pretty satisfying shape (slightly curved inward) until the neck joins the body, but then it dips back up to flatten out along the body.  Is this normal?  The seller said it was straight...but then again I doubt if any 1965 bass guitar would have a truly straight neck.  Thoughts/experiences?

More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 02:26:56 PM »
"it's rather buzzing after the note is released"

And also before you fret the note, i.e. moving around on that bass is altogether noisier than it normally would be? In that case the neck is too straight and what you hear are frets rattling to the left (viewed from above) of your fretting finger, not to the the right where the string swings. That is a symptom of some vintage instruments where age has led to some warpage around the 10th fret. You're then in a situation where an optimal action around the tenth fret will invariably lead to a too flat/convex neck around the third/fifth/seventh frets and the ensueing fret buzz which can be accomodated FOR FRETTED NOTES though via raising the bridge (thereby defeating some of the lower action you've gained at the 10th fret), but raisng the bridge only gets rid of fret buzz while the note is fretted not the "before and after buzz". I have a couple of basses like that. You have to compromise then between fret noise and high action. A fretjob can help and flatwound strings will also be less conspicious in fret noise. Only if things get really bad (they normally don't), will you need someone to hone down your fingerboard which involves a de- and refret.

But you said you wanted a mudbucker sound. In that case fret noise is an abstract concept  :shock: because the mudbucker will simply not transmit enough of it to the amp for it to be ever heard.   :lol:    

Uwe

More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 09:43:00 PM »
Yeah, even playing through a real amp last night for the first time with this bass, the buzz wasn't nearly as much an issue/annoyance as it was played unplugged.

Sounds pretty good through the Ampeg B-50R I have right now, although probably nothing like it should, due to the Ripper pickup (I'm almost certain now that's what it is).  Almost exactly like a stand-up bass is in the room, since it came with flatwound strings as well!

Bluegrass, anyone?

Heh heh heh...

More EB-0 / SG reissue bass questions
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2007, 01:23:52 AM »
that bass looks cool with that ripper pup and it should sound close to a MUDBUCKER.I would just leave it how it is.
ROCK-N-ROLL PIRATE...SKATE PUNK. 72 SB450, 76 RIPPER, 77 G3 GRABBER,92 LPB-1, 75 P-BASS,78 T-40,RAT FUZZ & BAD ATTITUDE

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1970 Rosetti Epiphone guitar catalogScan of 1970 Epiphone guitar catalogue produced by Rosetti for the UK market. Undated but most likely from mid-late 1970, this was the first UK catalogue to show the new range of Japanese (Matsumoku) Epiphone guitars. Interestingly, these pages show the Epiphone solid bodies with a single-sided Fender-style headstock layout - a feature quickly replaced with a typical two-sided Epiphone headstock almost immediately. Epiphone electric guitars: 9520, 9525; bass guitars: 9521, 9526; acoustic guitars: 6730, 6830, 6834
1971 A World of Guitars by Rosetti catalogueScan of 1971 Rosetti catalogue (UK) featuring guitars from from numerous manufacturers worldwide: guitars by Epiphone, Hagstrom, Levin, Hoyer, Egmond, Eros, Moridaira, Kiso-Suzuki, Schaller, and Tatra.
1971 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1971 Selmer guitar catalogue showing the range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Gibson, Yamaha, Selmer, Hofner and Suzuki. 1960s Selmer had always placed Hofner at the front end of their catalogues, no doubt these were the better sellers - but into the 1970s Hofner were slipping somewhat and only appear at the tail end of this publication, pride of place going to Gibson, and to a lesser extent Yamaha. In fact this is the last Selmer catalogue to include the many Hofner hollow bodies (Committee, President, Senator etc) that had defined the companies output for so many years - to be replaced in the 1972 catalogue by generic solid body 'copies' of Gibson and Fender models. A number of new Gibson models are included for the first time: the SG-100 and SG-200 six string guitars and the SB-300 and SB-400 basses.
1968 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1968/1969 Selmer guitar catalogue (printed July 1968), showing the entire range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Hofner, Gibson, Selmer and Giannini. Selmer were the exclusive United Kingdom distributors of Hofner and Gibson at the time, and this catalogue contains a total of 18 electric guitars, 7 bass guitars, 37 acoustics, and 2 Hawaiian guitars - all produced outside the UK and imported by Selmer, with UK prices included in guineas. This catalogue saw the (re-)introduction of the late sixties Gibson Les Paul Custom and Les Paul Standard (see page 69) and the short-lived Hofner Club 70. Other electric models include: HOFNER ELECTRICS: Committee, Verithin 66, Ambassador, President, Senator, Galaxie, HOFNER BASSES: Violin bass, Verithin bass, Senator bass, Professional bass GIBSON ELECTRICS: Barney Kessel, ES-330TD, ES-335TD, ES-345TD, ES-175D, ES-125CD, SG Standard, SG Junior, SG Special GIBSON BASSES: EB-0, EB-2, EB-3 - plus a LOT of acoustics branded Gibson, Hofner, Selmer and Giannini
1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!