Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

Fretless Les Paul Triumph

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« on: August 01, 2007, 05:47:41 PM »
I bought this bass about 15 years ago from a local vintage guitar store. It was in non-working condition, and they sold it "as-is" for about $300. After I soldered one wire back on to the jack, it was brilliant, and has been my baby ever since.
I have never heard of another fretless Triumph, except for one studio I spoke with, but they had theirs modified, and I believe that this is original from the factory. A gibson rep told me at a NAMM show that she thinks they did make 1 or 2 prototypes...

I will now attempt to get the pictures up.







[/url]

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 06:07:53 PM »
Really nice, never seen one like that, though back in the day you could get a fretless version of most Gibson basses if your dealer politely asked for it. I've seen "from the factory" fretless TBirds, long scale Les Pauls, RD Artists and Victories, grabbers and G-3s, not just the fretless Ripper they actually did offer officially. And now your "hobbit".

Uwe

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Triumph
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 07:24:13 PM »
A very nice bass, and an absolute steal at that price. Great condition too.
It just shows that you can get some real bargains from time to time.
I assume the fingerboard is ebony? How does it sound?

The gap between nut an truss rod cover surprises me a little (see my fretted Triumph below for comparison), as do the side dots. Have some of those been added later?

Does anyone else here have a fretless Triumph?


Re: Triumph
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 08:23:29 PM »
Quote from: jules

I assume the fingerboard is ebony? How does it sound?

The gap between nut an truss rod cover surprises me a little (see my fretted Triumph below for comparison), as do the side dots. Have some of those been added later?


yes, the fingerboard is ebony, and the nut is actually part of the fingerboard(this is not true, sorry, just a very tight seam) - I had not realized that until I read your question and took a closer look. The sound is strong and deep, but with a very nice clarity - the short scale makes the vibrato speak very easily, and throwing the out-of-phase switch instantly provides a remarkable tone. I imagine the ebony gives a little more punch and focus to the sound, as well as helping emphasise the special fretless tone.

As far as the side dots, after looking closely (I am certainly no expert), they all apear to be original -  But I agree, it is unusual to see both the fret positions as well as the markers at 3, 5, 7, etc.

Thijs

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 07:08:11 AM »
Interesting....! didn't know they were there. And such a good shape.

However, I just see some differences on the controlplate. It's not that large at the egdes as frettet-ones. It also does not 'stick' underneath the bridge pickup. And the pot-knobs differ from the normal-ones.
Doesn't it have drillholes for the handrestcap beside the bridge? Isn't normally a two-piece bridge installed?

Have fun with it!
Hombre Thijs... Tabasco!

www.treshombres.nl

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 12:31:28 PM »
wow - you guys know your Gibson basses! I'm glad I finally found some people who can appreciate this rare bird!

I have not replaced the knobs, but I cannot say if they are original or not - they are quite different.  Also the bridge is totally different than the pics of the 72 triumph that Jules has on the Triumph web page. I also can't say if this is original; but there are NO drill holes for a bridge cover or handrest by the bridge, so I imagine this was a custom order.

And I corrected my previous post about the nut being the same piece of wood as the fingerboard - I guess I needed more light. But I do love this "hobbit" (thanks Uwe) and am glad to share it with you!

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Triumph
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 01:59:54 PM »
That bridge is stock. They came with the two point (like my Triumph) until '73 when they changed to the 3 point. Same time as the EB basses changed over.


Now i've looked a bit longer at the pics, I think this bass has been refinished at some point. A very good job though - almost undetectable..... The reason being you have several screw holes that have been filled and finished over. See the two picks below. You have two indentations where the bridge cover holes would have been , and as Thijs pointed out the pickguard shap is a little different - this is because the tip has snapped off, but you can see the filled hole where the original hole would have been.



Note the filled bridge-cover holes, and below, compare the control plate shapes, with the missing tip at the bottom. Red arrows indicate filled holes


Thijs

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 04:58:06 PM »
Hi Jules,

I thought that the 3-P bridges where introduced at the same time the volute appeared at the back of the headstock. This LP has no volute... or does it?
So what is your opinion?
Hombre Thijs... Tabasco!

www.treshombres.nl

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 11:39:42 PM »
you guys are awesome!

1)  My pictures stink - unbelievable that Jules saw the filled-in holes , I will look at the bass again this evening.

2) what is a volute?

3) I will get some pics on the appropriate forums of my Vox Delta IV and '60 PBass.

Thijs

Fretless Les Paul Triumph
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 07:03:24 AM »
A volute is made to prevent the headstock from cracking too easy... See the pic of my white Triumph ('73/'74).

[/url]
Hombre Thijs... Tabasco!

www.treshombres.nl

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1970 Rosetti Epiphone guitar catalogScan of 1970 Epiphone guitar catalogue produced by Rosetti for the UK market. Undated but most likely from mid-late 1970, this was the first UK catalogue to show the new range of Japanese (Matsumoku) Epiphone guitars. Interestingly, these pages show the Epiphone solid bodies with a single-sided Fender-style headstock layout - a feature quickly replaced with a typical two-sided Epiphone headstock almost immediately. Epiphone electric guitars: 9520, 9525; bass guitars: 9521, 9526; acoustic guitars: 6730, 6830, 6834
1971 A World of Guitars by Rosetti catalogueScan of 1971 Rosetti catalogue (UK) featuring guitars from from numerous manufacturers worldwide: guitars by Epiphone, Hagstrom, Levin, Hoyer, Egmond, Eros, Moridaira, Kiso-Suzuki, Schaller, and Tatra.
1971 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1971 Selmer guitar catalogue showing the range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Gibson, Yamaha, Selmer, Hofner and Suzuki. 1960s Selmer had always placed Hofner at the front end of their catalogues, no doubt these were the better sellers - but into the 1970s Hofner were slipping somewhat and only appear at the tail end of this publication, pride of place going to Gibson, and to a lesser extent Yamaha. In fact this is the last Selmer catalogue to include the many Hofner hollow bodies (Committee, President, Senator etc) that had defined the companies output for so many years - to be replaced in the 1972 catalogue by generic solid body 'copies' of Gibson and Fender models. A number of new Gibson models are included for the first time: the SG-100 and SG-200 six string guitars and the SB-300 and SB-400 basses.
1968 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1968/1969 Selmer guitar catalogue (printed July 1968), showing the entire range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Hofner, Gibson, Selmer and Giannini. Selmer were the exclusive United Kingdom distributors of Hofner and Gibson at the time, and this catalogue contains a total of 18 electric guitars, 7 bass guitars, 37 acoustics, and 2 Hawaiian guitars - all produced outside the UK and imported by Selmer, with UK prices included in guineas. This catalogue saw the (re-)introduction of the late sixties Gibson Les Paul Custom and Les Paul Standard (see page 69) and the short-lived Hofner Club 70. Other electric models include: HOFNER ELECTRICS: Committee, Verithin 66, Ambassador, President, Senator, Galaxie, HOFNER BASSES: Violin bass, Verithin bass, Senator bass, Professional bass GIBSON ELECTRICS: Barney Kessel, ES-330TD, ES-335TD, ES-345TD, ES-175D, ES-125CD, SG Standard, SG Junior, SG Special GIBSON BASSES: EB-0, EB-2, EB-3 - plus a LOT of acoustics branded Gibson, Hofner, Selmer and Giannini
1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!