Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition

1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition
« on: May 11, 2007, 05:54:46 PM »
Hello. I am a newbie and have a question.

I have a single pickup cream colored (Classic white my guess) Thunder bird IV bass. The serial number is 81896602 - made in the USA below it. Above it, it has a Custom Shop Edition logo on it.

It has stress cracks in the paint, over all condition is very good. It was altered for a pick up. Someone added three small switches for an active pickup. They are not working as the original pick was put back in.

It is definitely a reissue ,,, these basses were made only in 1985-86 in small quantities ... they are not listed in any price guide

Could you tell me the approx. value of this bass?
I am interested in buying it and want to make a fair offer.

Many thanks,

eb2

  • ****
  • 456
    • View Profile
1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 11:57:30 PM »
Were the switches mini-toggles that were drilled into the top of the bass from the control cavity?  Was the pickup rout widened or altered at all?
boom

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
mods
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2007, 01:45:11 AM »
Hi, and welcome - yeah a lot depends on how much has been done. You are right that only a few were made then - so that increases the value, but non-reversible changes will decrease the value to. I would cautiously estimate a value of $1000 - $2000 but the only real way to find out is to see what someone will pay for it.

Pictures
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2007, 07:12:47 AM »
Here is my 1977 RD Standard and the Thunderbird. As you can see the switches are very small. Would that change the value a whole lot.









eb2

  • ****
  • 456
    • View Profile
1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2007, 08:25:49 AM »
Unfortunatley, drilling holes through the face of the bass has a negative impact on the value.  It is an instance where size really doesn't matter, as it is a non-reversable alterartion.  A good refinishing guy could plug and fill those holes and match the finish to cover them up, but you could always tell by looking in the cavity.  Sad, because with push-pull pots, pretty much anything that those were doing could have been done without removing a splinter.  Mini-toggles are cheaper up front, but very expensive years later.  The pickguard is ood, but it can always be replaced.

It is not horrible damage though, and it looks all there - except the mirror guard - and pretty nice.  Crazed finishes have character, I think.  The single pup basses are pretty rare.  If it floats your boat, and you have the cash to spare then I would suggest trying to bargain down the price.  Jules' range is a nice way to guage it.  It is really up to you what to pay.  Either way, good luck.
boom

Thanks
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2007, 03:11:32 PM »
Boom,
Thanks for the info. Yeah, the pickguard actullay came on the bass when it was made. I was told that between 85 and 86, they started got enough orders to prompt them to start the reissue in 87. Not sure if that is true or a good story  to go along with the bass.

TRUE about the push-pull pots!  Great point!


On my RD standard, I was reading somewhere online that they are rare, to only sell if you need the $$$ as they will continue go up in value.

Thanks,
A

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
thunderbird
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2007, 10:13:26 PM »
Yeah thats a nice Thunderbird. They certainly don't come up too often in any condition. I'd say that $1700 to $1800 was fair - not a bargain but not overpriced either

Are you going to get it?

Jules
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2007, 02:33:02 AM »
Hey Jules,
Yeah, I think now, with the input I feel better about making the offer. Thanks!!! I am glad I came across this blog site.

Could you give me your insite on the RD Standard I have? It is a 77, in great shape. No real dings. Is this something I should hold onto for the a while as it will increase in value. I spoke with one guy in a guitar shop and he showed me the worth just 4 years agos at around 445 and said they are up to 1100 -1200.  Any thoughts?

Thanks

doom

  • ****
  • 264
    • View Profile
1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 08:36:54 PM »
Prices have been going upwards steadily the past 5 years. The RD Standard is around 900-1100 on Ebay. The Artist 1100-1400. Black and Burst specimens usually go in the upper range and naturals are'nt as sought after and go in the lower region. Sell or not? If you like it, keep it. If you need the money and don't like it then sell it. Instruments that go up pricewise hardly ever go down and no matter when you sell you'll see some years further ahead they've gone up. That's a part of life.

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
RD
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2007, 09:05:56 PM »
re the RD:
From the pic it does look in very nice condition. I have been surprised how quickly the RDs have been going up in value - more than some others perhaps - so from an investment point of view - yeah keep it as long as you can afford to!

I take it (by the fact you are questioning keeping it) you don't play it so much? Is this because of the Tbird, or do you have something else as your main bass?

1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 02:44:29 AM »
about that 'bird.if it's a custom shop bass,maybe it was ordered that way?what do your mini toggles do?
ROCK-N-ROLL PIRATE...SKATE PUNK. 72 SB450, 76 RIPPER, 77 G3 GRABBER,92 LPB-1, 75 P-BASS,78 T-40,RAT FUZZ & BAD ATTITUDE

Sell or keep the RD
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2007, 09:40:23 PM »
Hey Jules,

I actually just bought that RD. It was kinda an impulse buy. I hadn't seen many Black ones and just was researching the bass and there it was. Everything I read  stated the trend for the value of the bass would go up. I think I paid a little too much but what can you do.

Yeah, the Tbird is my main bass so I guess I will wait and see how long I can keep the RD.

Question..... How would you compare the new Tbirds to older ones?

Thanks.

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Re: Sell or keep the RD
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 02:44:34 PM »
Quote from: led2life
Question..... How would you compare the new Tbirds to older ones?


The neck through mahogany construction is the biggest contributor to the Thunderbird sound - So set necks (non reverse Thunderbird, studio) are a little different.

A lot of people feel that one pickup birds sound a lot better than two pickups birds.....

There are plus and minus sides (for me) to all Thunderbirds - the sixties ones had terrible poorly intonating bridges, the seventies ones had terrible neck dive, the modern ones loose all the chrome, and simply don't look as good.

In many ways your pre-reissue bass has the best of all worlds - I assume the neck dive isn't too bad, you don't have dull black plastic pups.... and you have one of very few one pickup basses that can be accurately intonated.

Whether the pickups themselves sound different is open to question - they probably are subtley different, but I would say relative height, string choice etc make comparing them side by side a very non-scientific task!

Have you compared yours to any other birds? what do you think?

doom

  • ****
  • 264
    • View Profile
1986 Thunderbird IV Custom Shop Edition
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 03:14:43 PM »
From the looks of it those '86 reissue T'bird II's have Bicentennial pickups.

Have you compared yours to any other birds?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2007, 05:35:51 PM »
I did not like the new ones at all. They almost feel cheap. They are super light and the pickups seem cheap.  Sound, I have never tried one in a true Live setting through my gear. No offense to anyone who owns one and you know opinons, everyone has one. The new ones are just not for me.

My RD, man that thing is solid. Has a MONSTER sound and it feels like I am holding a tank. I like it alot. With regards to my Tbird, I quote the great Jack Nicholson from Batan... "You... are my number one..." AYE!

Is $1500.00  2 much to pay for a almost mint 1979 ALL ORIGINAL Tbird?

Thanks.

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1970 Rosetti Epiphone guitar catalogScan of 1970 Epiphone guitar catalogue produced by Rosetti for the UK market. Undated but most likely from mid-late 1970, this was the first UK catalogue to show the new range of Japanese (Matsumoku) Epiphone guitars. Interestingly, these pages show the Epiphone solid bodies with a single-sided Fender-style headstock layout - a feature quickly replaced with a typical two-sided Epiphone headstock almost immediately. Epiphone electric guitars: 9520, 9525; bass guitars: 9521, 9526; acoustic guitars: 6730, 6830, 6834
1971 A World of Guitars by Rosetti catalogueScan of 1971 Rosetti catalogue (UK) featuring guitars from from numerous manufacturers worldwide: guitars by Epiphone, Hagstrom, Levin, Hoyer, Egmond, Eros, Moridaira, Kiso-Suzuki, Schaller, and Tatra.
1971 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1971 Selmer guitar catalogue showing the range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Gibson, Yamaha, Selmer, Hofner and Suzuki. 1960s Selmer had always placed Hofner at the front end of their catalogues, no doubt these were the better sellers - but into the 1970s Hofner were slipping somewhat and only appear at the tail end of this publication, pride of place going to Gibson, and to a lesser extent Yamaha. In fact this is the last Selmer catalogue to include the many Hofner hollow bodies (Committee, President, Senator etc) that had defined the companies output for so many years - to be replaced in the 1972 catalogue by generic solid body 'copies' of Gibson and Fender models. A number of new Gibson models are included for the first time: the SG-100 and SG-200 six string guitars and the SB-300 and SB-400 basses.
1968 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1968/1969 Selmer guitar catalogue (printed July 1968), showing the entire range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Hofner, Gibson, Selmer and Giannini. Selmer were the exclusive United Kingdom distributors of Hofner and Gibson at the time, and this catalogue contains a total of 18 electric guitars, 7 bass guitars, 37 acoustics, and 2 Hawaiian guitars - all produced outside the UK and imported by Selmer, with UK prices included in guineas. This catalogue saw the (re-)introduction of the late sixties Gibson Les Paul Custom and Les Paul Standard (see page 69) and the short-lived Hofner Club 70. Other electric models include: HOFNER ELECTRICS: Committee, Verithin 66, Ambassador, President, Senator, Galaxie, HOFNER BASSES: Violin bass, Verithin bass, Senator bass, Professional bass GIBSON ELECTRICS: Barney Kessel, ES-330TD, ES-335TD, ES-345TD, ES-175D, ES-125CD, SG Standard, SG Junior, SG Special GIBSON BASSES: EB-0, EB-2, EB-3 - plus a LOT of acoustics branded Gibson, Hofner, Selmer and Giannini
1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!