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'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« on: March 20, 2007, 01:51:44 PM »
I'm new to this forum, so please bear with me...

I recently purchased a fretless Ripper from a seller on eBay, and I'm having a little trouble dating it.  Unfortunately I don't have any clear pictures of the bass to share, but I'll try to describe some the the interesting features.  

First of all, only the volume and pickup selector pots are original.  I pulled the serial number from the volume pot: 1377522.  I understand this to mean that the pot was constructed in the 22nd week of 1975, and the bass was soon to folllow.  What's bending my mind is I can't seem to find a 1975 Ebony Fretless.  They were made fretless, and they were made in Ebony, but I can't find the combo.

Also, on the back of the head stock the "Made In USA" is stamped, but there is no readable serial number.  I pulled the (replacement, boo) tuning machines to really get a good look, but I still couldn't find one.  Any clues?

I guess if anybody has some info, I'd love to hear it!  Thanks in advance!

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 02:12:03 PM »
I know it's a long link, sorry.  This is the eBay auction page for the bass...


74-or-75-Gibson-The-Ripper-Fretless-Bass-Guitar-70s

Blackies
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 03:40:24 PM »
You got a great deal on the bass. I bet they did not need to do any routing on the bass for the pre-amp.

They did come black on black for fretless. I believe Doom has one like it.

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 04:01:51 PM »
Hello, and thanks for the reply!  I do think I got a great deal as well, especially for year and condition.  There was a bit of routing for the preamp, but it isn't anything major at all.  The bass runs so hot, that I'm using that preamp selector as a quasi-standby switch.  

I've found several models that are very similar, but I can't quite find one that is identical.  The main difference in the one that I have is on the back of the body where the strings come through.  The later Rippers have a plastic (or maybe metal) piece inlayed into the body, whereas mine has only four holes.

Regardless, I checked out those myspace photos, and he doesn't have any posted of the Ripper.  However, I appreciate the input!

doom

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'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 07:53:04 PM »
Hi' and congratulations. Very nice price and it even has the bridge cover. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I guess you mean you have not seen any shipping figures for '75 fretless in ebony finish. You should always take these figures with a grain of salt. If the pots date week 22 of 1975 yours is probably a later 1975 model. The six digit serial nr the seller spotted beginning with 4 could very well mean 1975. Often batches of parts were made up and your neck could be a late 1974 which was not assembled until late 1975 or even early 1976. There's no real certainty in dating old Gibsons and there's always the possibility of exceptions to every rule. I'd say there's nothing wrong in saying yours is a 1975 model.

Mine is a 1978 model and is easier to date since they by then had the serial nr system still present to this day. I like it a lot.

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 08:00:59 PM »
Doom - that is what I was looking for.  I saw the shipping totals for basses in that 10 year period, but none that matched what I've got.  Anyway, you have confirmed my original thoughts of it being a '75.

I did find an ex-Gibson luthier in my area who now owns a repair shop, and I'm going to make an appointment with him this week.  He is affectionately known as "Yoda," so I'm hoping he might be able to tell me some random stuff.

Thanks for your information, you've gotten me one step closer!

jules

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Ripper shipping figures
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 08:39:47 PM »
Hi detroitfunker, and welcome

Yeah you got a nice bass at a great price

i'm afraid ANYTHING Gibson did involving record keeping in the sixties and seventies was done inefficiently. That is the main reason for this site!

The shipping figures shown here https://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/L-9Sripper.php are from Larry Meiners book, which has errors, omissions and inconsistancies but is all we have - Gibson have no records at all.

A black fretless is not that surprising, especially in its first year (the first year of fretted Rippers also saw Cherry Sunburst, and the 1980s also saw white). As already pointed out the shipping figures are not 100% spot on, it may have been omitted, or lumped in with the other colour rippers

The complete lack of serial number is more unusual however - usually only appearing on instruments not meant for distribution - could this be a refin? hold the headstock at an angle - can you see no markings at all?(above the made in the USA stamp)

Another possibility is this bass was defretted. Where are the dot markers in relation to the frets? Early fretless rippers had the dots in the same place as a fretted ripper -ie in between frets - play it like that and you'll be out of tune. Later they moved the dots to where the actual frets would have been.

If you're dots are in the right place, its probably had a fingerboard replacement!

All the other features (pickups, string-through holes, body shape) suggest a 75 - no real reason to suspect otherwise

jules

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 09:01:06 PM »
Hey jules - hello and thank you; this site is amazing - what a wealth!

I've been scouring that web page for the last week or so, just looking for a nugget of information that I may have missed.  It really is a great resource, and I did get most of what I know about my instrument from that site; great minds think alike, eh?

I did try and look for any hint of a serial number, both when I recieved it, and when I tore it apart to clean it and check all the internals.  Needless to say, I didn't find it.  The seller thought the serial number was 404046, but I don't know where he got that from.  Neither the pics on the eBay page nor the actual instrument really convey that.  

I'll double check the fret/dot position when I get home from work tonight, and get back to you.  I'll also try to get some better photos up for you (and anyone else interested).

This may be painfully obvious, but what are common ways to check for refinishing?

jules

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refins
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 01:16:01 AM »
Quote from: detroitfunker
This may be painfully obvious, but what are common ways to check for refinishing?


I often find that refins are shinnier - more refective - in photos (my own photos under identical conditions). This may be due to modern refins using different materials than the Gibson nitro - or it may be to do with aging - not sure really, but all my refins have photo'd differently than originals. I don't have any really old refins, so I don't know whether I'll still find this difference in 20 years time.

A refin can be hard to spot - a GREAT luthier can do it so you just wont know. Only an imperfect job is detectable. some clues are:
1) missing/faint serial number
2) finish chips with other colours underneath
3) bevelled edges loosing some of their shape due to oversanding
4) tiny dents, pore marks etc that have finish inside them, as if the finish was applied after the dent was made - most obvious in see through colours
5) control cavities with different colours within them
6) occasionally a colour code may be written in a route/neck pocket - i've seen a lot of grabbers /G3s with NS in black marker pen (natural satin)

refins are a lot harder to spot in basses with a solid colour than see-through. There are exceptions to every rule, but your missing serial number will make people assume its a refin. How clear is the made in USA stamp? It is a stamp, and not a decal right?

heres mine - as you can see the sn is quite clear - made in USA is there, but hasn't really came out on this photo - partially obscurred by tuners. Black basses are hard to photograph



Even if yours is a refin you still got a good price - its a great bass, and black is probably the most desired finish, so I really wouldn't let it worry you

I'd certainly email your seller and ask how/where he got the serial number from though - whilst you still have their details

jules

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 04:04:54 PM »
Thanks for the pointers, I do appreciate the help.  I applied all of those suggestions to my bass, and a few match...

Obvioulsy there is no serial number, some of the edges are a bit "rounded off," but the little dents and dings only reveal natural wood underneath, so I don't know know if it's a refin.  Like I said, I'm going to take it to that ex-luthier/repair shop owner to see what he thinks.

Also, I do have to play "in front' of the dots (closer to the pickup, farther from the headstock) in order to be in tune.  DId you say that it's likely the bass had a fingerboard that was replaced, or that it recieved a fingerboard for a fretted instrument?

One last thing: the "Made in USA" is a stamp, not a decal.  I'm working on those pictures....

Signs
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 04:25:50 PM »
I would doubt it's a refin due to it's poor paint condition, but who knows?

I had a maple Ripper and it too had the serial number stamped on the back of the headstock.

With a missing serial number that would tell me it's possibly a stolen bass as even with a refin you should see some very faint serial numbers. I thought you were not allowed to sell a bass/guitar without it's serial number?????

On the other hand does the back of the headstock appear to be uneven in  anyway where the serial number should be?

Another way to check to see if it's a refin would be if the additional routing was painted. a refin they would generally strip all the parts off & paint the cavities.

Also look to see if they just removed the serial mumber and repainted just that area?


With my black Ripper the paint was very thin and not real mirror like, with no primer, it appears. With a good refin people tend to wet sand the finish to be perfectly flat & mirror like. The original finish, at least on mine, was somewhat poor, far from flat & mirror like (a bit of orange peel).

jules

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fretless
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 09:13:25 PM »
Quote from: detroitfunker
Also, I do have to play "in front' of the dots (closer to the pickup, farther from the headstock) in order to be in tune.  DId you say that it's likely the bass had a fingerboard that was replaced, or that it recieved a fingerboard for a fretted instrument?


No, thats probably correct - an original early fretless. For the first couple of years the dots were like yours (mine is the same) before they corrected this. Had yours of been a normal ripper which had been defretted, they would probably have put a board on with the dots in the right place.

Incidently, you can cover the old dots with marker pen, and put on new dots using tipex (can never remember what the American equivalent is called).

This will give you dots in the right place, yet is completely reversible

'75/'76 Ebony Fretless Ripper... Have a couple questions...
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2007, 07:56:50 PM »
He he....  I think you mean "Sharpie" markers...

Anyway, I totally would do that, but I've already grown accustomed to playing in front of the dots!  Whoops!

Thank you so much to everyone for all of the information that you've shared.  You've really helped me understand what I have!

I'll post another topic as soon as I get off my lazy ass and get some photos!

 

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