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EB-3L in need of a neck reset

EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« on: February 16, 2009, 08:32:46 PM »
Hi All, been a while since I posted but wanted to get any experiences on this I can. I brought a 1970 EB-3L from Ebay in the states last year only to discover that the neck was set badly when it was originally made. Instead of being angled away from the body like a normal Gibson the neck is angled forwards! (if that makes sense).

Anyway I got it set up as best I could but I've never really been happy with it so I've decided to bite the bullet and get my luthier to reset the neck. I really love the bass but it's just not nice to play as it is. Thankfully I didn't pay too much for it so even as parts it was worth buying it.

Has anyone else found this with a slothead EB-3L/EB-OL from the same period?

G

www.motherlodeonline.co.uk

Re: EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 10:26:58 PM »
I've seen a lot of slot head EBs with shallow neck angle and high action. Never saw negative angle, but it's possible. The '70s wasn't exactly Gibson's peak quality control period...
I had one in for repair 10 or 12 years ago with that problem. Someone had deepened the slots in the nylon bridge saddles in an attempt to lower the action, and filed them so deep that the strings weren't touching the bottom at all and the bass naturally wouldn't intonate!

For some reason whenever Gibson issued a new model or had a major design change to an existing model they often blew it with the neck angle. For example, '52 goldtop Les Pauls, '54 Les Paul Juniors, early run non reverse Thunderbirds, and EBs often have too shallow of a neck angle.
'70 is pretty early in slot head production...supposedly there are '69s, but I once owned a solid peghead EB-3 with a '70 serial # and '69 and '70 pot codes, so I guess they overlapped. Also they have pre '70 features like no "Made In USA" and no volute on the back of the headstock which might add to the confusion.

A neck reset is an expensive proposition. Sometimes you can get away with adjusting the truss rod so that the neck is perfectly straight, no relief...this will bring the neck closer to the strings.
Otherwise, you will have to "bite the bullet" and go for the reset...

Re: EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 10:57:26 PM »
I am trying to figure out how to do just that, My friend has a hamer prototype guitar with a triple-bucker pickups. The neck came off and he reglued it, but didnt get the angle right. Now I cant get the neck off to save my life.

Best of luck with your Bass! Keep us posted.

jules

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Re: EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 12:56:28 AM »
Rumblekat uses the same luthier as I do (Andy Viccars Custom) in Milton Keynes - he's reset a Gibson bass neck or two for me, and he'll certainly do a good job.

IIRC he steams the joint to get it unstuck. I think the difficulty of unsticking varies from neck to neck, and what state the glue is in after 40 years. I think some just come undone, and others take quiet a bit work. Perhaps we can get Andy to take some 'ungluing' photos.

Quote
The '70s wasn't exactly Gibson's peak quality control period...

Would Gibson have let out a guitar with that problem? Even in the seventies they still had final inspections by people who had been there since the 1940s and 1950s - and most of these final inspectors were serious musicians too - they would have played them too - not the kind of people to not notice something like an incorrectly set neck. The bar may have been lowered to save money, but surely not lowered that much? At least I hope not!

I wonder if glue  can weaken and allowed the neck to slip subtley over the years, without much evidence at the heel?

Re: EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 02:55:56 AM »
Shallow neck angles can be seen on even '50s Gibsons, but I've seen some pretty bad QC issues on '70s Gibsons. We've discussed the protruding truss rod nuts before...(sometimes covered up with double truss rod covers) well, I had a '66 T-Bird with that, but it's more common on Rippers, RD's, L-6S, etc.
I bought a '75 Ebony Ripper new back in the day that had a finish crack along one of the neck laminations, seen several Les Paul Customs and one walnut The Paul where the necks were coming loose from the body. 2 years ago I repaired a Wine Red '76 Les Paul Custom on which the "sandwich" body was separating nearly all the way around the edges. Much of it was opened up with a yawning 1/8" gap that you could peer into as far as the eye could see! I've seen delamination on a few other sandwich body '70s Les Pauls, but not anywhere near as bad as this.
I think Gibson and Fender both were just cranking out too much product during the '70s to maintain the quality control they had in the '50s and early '60s. 339 EB-3s were manufactured in '65, in '70: 1589. Gibson was cranking out Les Paul Customs to the tune of around 10,000 a year for much of the '70s. (I'm using a first edition "American Guitars" by Tom Wheeler that happens to be handy for the shipping total info) It's not possible to maintain the same QC level when spitting out guitars at that rate, especially in those pre CNC machine times. Plus they implemented cost cutting measures like 3 piece necks and laminated bodies, etc.
As an old geezer that came up in the '70s, I can report that the poor quality of '70s guitars is what drove the vintage market to it's dizzying heights and put terms like "Pre-CBS" in the guitarist's vernacular. We simply couldn't buy a new instrument that was as good as an old one.
Now that '70s guitars are 30-nearly 40 years old they've taken on a "vintage" aura, particularly amongst players who were born in the '70s. but  objectively, they really don't compare. I think an early-mid '60s EB-3 is a far better instrument than a slot head or (ugh!) thick-body-pickup-in-the-middle-big-headstock-maple-neck later '70s EB...I've owned them all.
Yes, a neck set can go bad over time from constant string tension, or being left in the trunk of a car on a hot day, which is not uncommon here in the US, esp. in the South. I've seen non-reverse 'Birds where the pine shims Gibson used between the end of the fingerboard and the body begin to crush down, but usually without ill effect other than cosmetics. If there's no sign of distress at the neck loint, most likely it's a manufacturing defect.
I also wonder if the standard of what constitutes "low action" is the same now as it was then...

Re: EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2009, 09:35:39 PM »
Thanks for your comments guys, I'll see if I can get Andy to take some shots for our interest. As far as i can see it's definately a manufacturing defect as the neck is still sitting snuggly in the pocket. To me it looks like the body where the neck pocket is angles up almost like they didn't shave enough wood of the body.

Like Jules said, I'm confident Andy will do a good job and ultimately make the bass playable. As I said before the cost of the bass was cheap so the cost of the neck reset is not an issue although Andy's pretty fair with what he charges IMHO.

My ripper also has a double layer trussrod cover! Ah the seventies littered with ill fitting Fender necks and dodgy Les Paul layered bodies............

G

www.motherlodeonline.co.uk

Re: EB-3L in need of a neck reset
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2009, 09:35:03 PM »
So I took my bass down at the weekend, in addition to the reset I'm going to also have the rout for the Badass bridge refilled. Just need to pick up an original 2 point bridge for it now when one comes up on ebay unless anyone out there has one to sell?

G

www.motherlodeonline.co.uk

 

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