Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

The Andy Fraser Sound

SeanS

The Andy Fraser Sound
« on: September 08, 2008, 12:35:06 PM »
Thirty years ago I first listened to Free and was totally blown away, just the whole sound each a separate sound and individually voiced perfectly with much soul. Ever since I had the thought to pic up an EB3, simply because of Andy Fraser, I just loved that sound. Gear Acquisition Syndrome....perhaps.

I have looked through the forum and found bits on Andy, but does anybody have more info on his sound.
    Like, did he have a stock EB3 ?, or was it modified.( looks like a 69 to me).
Flat wounds or bridge damping set up?, sounds like flatwounds to me.

I notice he plays really very close to the bridge with fingers.

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 02:42:16 PM »
Excellent question! I don't have any answers, but I'm looking forward to hearing the responses. I bought my (single-pickup) EB-2 naively hoping to be able to achieve that sound (especially the studio version of "Mr. Big"), and never got it which is OK - I quickly learned to love the mudd!

jules

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Andy Fraser sound
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 02:53:57 PM »
Well, Andy was one of the first people we talked to... see the Andy Fraser interview

I did obviously ask about the EB3, but he largely can't remember.
I suppose if he could remember he wouldn't have been there (?)

I am fairly sure his EB3 was stock though. It would have been a pre-'64 based on the spacing of the volume/tone pots and the position of the crown inlay on the headstock. Also his has no route under the pickguard, which later ones do have.

I think getting a large valve stack and turning up will go a long way to getting the sound you want. Playing near the bridge too of course, as you already noted...

SeanS

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 03:43:59 PM »
Thanks Jules, the interview is great and an excellent read, yes the facts are a little vague, but I suppose when you're young and in the scene the creative aspect is in the music and not so much in the little tweeks.

So would you say he was using Flatwound strings or could it be the damper giving the shortend notes.

Andy Fraser
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 05:04:57 PM »
Hi,

IYes, he was/is a superb, tasteful player with not a single note out of place and a great tone, the cleanest Gibson bass sound I've ever heard!

I could never duplicate his Free tone with a stock EB-3. Once I had an EB-0 conversion (with added EB-3 bridge pickup but a straight toggle switch, no Varitone) and that was it,..both pickups on, no choke, caps, or resistors. I strongly suspect that the electronics of Andy's EB-3 were not stock. I was told years ago by the late Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amp fame that "none of those British bass players that played Gibson basses had stock electronics". He got this information from a guy named Carl Hill who was a great bass player from a band called Doug Brockie's Sky Force (Google them) who played with Ginger Baker in the '70s. Ken said that Carl knew the name of the person who did these alleged mods.

Andy's EB-3 was definitely an pre-'67: wide knob spacing, bar bridge, and metal plated treble pickup ring. The flanged, chome plated plastic mudbucker cover indicates that his was a very early model, possibly a '61 or '62...Gibson switched to a nickel plated metal cover by '63 or '64.

I've seen photos of him ca. Heartbreaker ('72) playing a very unusual blonde EB-2D with an EB-3 Varitone switch!

By the way, his sometimes staccato style was NOT produced by the basses' mute. In fact, I think that like a lot of EB players, he removed the mute in order to be able to get the action lower. It's all about left hand muting, which yieds far more control than a mechanical mute ever could.

I think there are some parallells between Fraser's and Jaco Pastorius..
Both were active ( won't say BUSY, which has a negative connotation) yet tasty bassists with styles rooted in R&B, and both favored a tight, fingerstyle picked-over-the -bridge pickup tone.
Although I've never heard Jaco mention Andy Fraser as an influence, I can't help but wonder if he was. Or it may have been a case of somewhat parallel evolution with both listening to a lot of the same R&B stuff in their formative years. I've heard Andy compared to Jack Bruce, but I think that's purely due the them both playing EB-3s and being British contemporaries,

In any case, Andy Fraser was a very advanced bassist for his time (or any time!) who never got the recognition he should have

Karl Hill
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 03:18:05 PM »
BTW, I found some info on Karl Hill. (It's Karl with a K, not a C, and Skyforce, one word, not two, I found out)

They recorded an album with Ginger Baker during the period when he was living in Italy. I haven't heard it, curious to, though.

Here's a link to a pic of Karl with a late '60s EB-3:

http://www.arcturusrecords.com/Pages/babpht3.html

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2008, 08:09:44 PM »
Have heard 'All Right Now' a bazillion times on radio, but not a lot else.  What are some essential Free tracks for Andy's playing?

Andy Fraser
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 10:09:55 PM »
Mr. Big is possibly the best example...features an extended bass solo. It's also on the "Fire And Water" album, although there are some great live versions too.
"The Stealer", "Songs Of Yesterday", Walk In My Shadow" , "The Worm", and "Little Bit Of Love" also are great showcases of Fraser's style.

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 01:12:37 PM »
And "Going Down Slow" on the Tons Of Sobs album is a good example of not playing another boring slow 12 bar blues.
Pete

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 09:41:19 AM »
Quote
guitarshark wrote: I strongly suspect that the electronics of Andy's EB-3 were not stock. I was told years ago by the late Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amp fame that "none of those British bass players that played Gibson basses had stock electronics".


I disagree, I think his EB-3 was stock. I use my EB-3 basses through a 100 Watt JCM800 Valve Marshall (not that different to what Andy used) with a 4X12 cab and can get similar sounds. The thing with Andy from what I hear in his playing is that he used different settings for different songs not just one sound and I think his finger style close to the bridge plays a big part in his tone. Before I did the interview for this site I had previously asked Andy about his settings and his response was something along the lines of you have to just take the time to dial in the sound you want. I do think though that his Epiphone Rivoli (not an EB-2) was modded as you rightly noticed guitarshark it has a rotary/varitone switch installed instead of the three way toggle.

G

www.motherlodeonline.co.uk

SeanS

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 10:30:40 AM »
I disagree, I think his EB-3 was stock. I use my EB-3 basses through a 100 Watt JCM800 Valve Marshall (not that different to what Andy used) with a 4X12 cab and can get similar sounds. The thing with Andy from what I hear in his playing is that he used different settings for different songs not just one sound and I think his finger style close to the bridge plays a big part in his tone. Before I did the interview for this site I had previously asked Andy about his settings and his response was something along the lines of you have to just take the time to dial in the sound you want. I do think though that his Epiphone Rivoli (not an EB-2) was modded as you rightly noticed guitarshark it has a rotary/varitone switch installed instead of the three way toggle.

G
www.motherlodeonline.co.uk[/quote]


Are you using pos 3 on the selector ?, this is where I find its closest to Andys sound, but its still a long way off, it just feels that the neck pup needs to be contributing more which gives more credence to the rewire tack.
      I think the single most decisive mod in getting towards Andys sound would be Flatwound strings, but no one seems to know if he did use them, if they were Roundwounds then I'm lost.

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 01:12:30 PM »
I use different positions on my bass but generally both pups on together seems to work well. I don't know what strings Andy used but would guess they were flatwounds. I use Labella Deep Talkin' flatwounds on all my basses as I like the feel and sound.

G

www.motherlodeonline.co.uk

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 03:49:45 PM »
Position 3 IS the closest to the Andy Fraser tone on a stock EB-3, it's both pickups with the choke and a resistor and/or cap on the neck pickup, Position 3 sounds similar to position 2 (bridge PU only) with a little less volume. I used to slightly roll back the volume on the neck pickup using position 3, which brings up the volume a bit, but then it's pretty much the same as position 2!.
To me, Andy's tone sounds like both pickups straight up in parallell, but who knows? As I said earlier, when I've played EBs wired without a Varitone, that seemed to be the sound. A stock EB-2D gets close too.

As for the EB-2D, who knows how the Varitone in that was wired...could have been stock or not.

He did change settings, you can see him turning knobs while playing in the Beat Club video footage in the Island Free VHS.

SeanS

Re: The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 04:10:08 PM »
Quote from: guitarshark
Position 3 IS the closest to the Andy Fraser tone on a stock EB-3, it's both pickups with the choke and a resistor and/or cap on the neck pickup, Position 3 sounds similar to position 2 (bridge PU only) with a little less volume. I used to slightly roll back the volume on the neck pickup using position 3, which brings up the volume a bit, but then it's pretty much the same as position 2!.
To me, Andy's tone sounds like both pickups straight up in parallell, but who knows? As I said earlier, when I've played EBs wired without a Varitone, that seemed to be the sound. A stock EB-2D gets close too.

As for the EB-2D, who knows how the Varitone in that was wired...could have been stock or not.

He did change settings, you can see him turning knobs while playing in the Beat Club video footage in the Island Free VHS.


I am thinking too this is the way, on the standard set up pos 3 just dosen't give enough of the neck pup. Perhaps just the standard gibson 6 string toggle wiring but retaining the 4 pos switch and pots. As the neck pup is so powerfull this way, with both pups selected, that would make the use of the volume pots more necessary.

I haven't seen the Beat Club footage, but does it show Andy changing settings on his tone pots?.

All interesting stuff, I'm off to get some labella's.

The Andy Fraser Sound
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 04:22:02 PM »
I haven't seen the Beat Club footage, but does it show Andy changing settings on his tone pots?.

All interesting stuff, I'm off to get some labella's.

Yeah, I can't remember which song or songs, but you can clearly see him reaching over the bass with his LEFT hand (if I remember correctly) to adjust a knob, not sure if it's tone or volume. This was on the official Island VHS from '91 or '92  and has been on other compilations as well. Well worth checking out.

Good luck with the LaBellas!

 

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