Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

newbie question

Timo

newbie question
« on: December 15, 2005, 07:30:23 PM »
hi-
i've been playing bass for 24 years, and i'm finally looking at purchasing my first gibson (i know, took me long enough to see the light!) i'm curious which model people might suggest for a first time gibson owner. i'm considering buying an early 90s thunderbird IV or perhaps keeping an eye out for an RD (standard or artist). i really like the body style of these two basses, and i'd characterize myself as a blues-rock player. i used to have a gibson grabber clone about 20 years ago, and didn't really care for it that much.
anybody out there have any comments about the les paul double cutaway?
cheers- timo

doom

  • ****
  • 264
    • View Profile
newbie question
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2005, 04:17:43 AM »
Hi Timo! From Finland by any chance? If you are into blues-rock I believe a Thunderbird would suit you best. I have'nt played the RD's but from descriptions I've read they are very versatile (Artist with Moog circuit) but you would probably do better with the growl of a T'bird. The necks are different in case of skinny vs stubbier necks where the T'bird is narrower at nut and I believe skinnier too. The T'bird is also more light weight if that's important for you.The body profiles on both would take some getting used to and I believe the Thunderbird is more of a neck diver than the RD's. I'm sure soon enough someone with more experience in both models will chime in.

Blues Rock
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2005, 12:34:59 PM »
I would say for blues-rock the T bird or a Les Paul bass would be your best bet. Les Paul Basses have the same pickups as the T Bird, except some of the flat top Bart equipped ones. Les Paul Basses have a great ballsy in your face tone that kills. The T bird is more tame, but great just the same. Pauls do tend to be heavy though. Pauls also have better upper fret access.
The T bird is a classic, but is a bit of a neck diver.

Both are great basses.

newbie question
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2005, 01:23:16 PM »
Hi, I play blues based rock in my band and I have used a range of Gibson basses over the years.

Originally my first Gibson was a 1992 Thunderbird, then I started using and 2000 SGZ but now I favour older basses. My current basses I use include a 1969 EB3, 1970 EBO, 1971 Les Paul, 1976 Ripper, 1977 RD Artist and an Epiphone Allen Woody. All of which seem to work well for me. I think the amp helps aswell, I use a Marshall JCM800 bass head and matching 4X12 cab. I think you need to try out some to get the right sound for you.

The only Gibson bass I owned which I struggled with was an EB2 as I found it didn't cut through enough on the heavier/faster material.  

You can hear downloads of my band at www.motherlodeonline.co.uk and on those tracks I'm using the EB3.

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
thunderbird vs Rd
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2005, 01:34:06 PM »
hey Timo

Its a tough one. Both have pros and cons.

RD artist - lots of great sounds, far more variety than any other Gibson bass. It is maple and very heavy. If you are big and strong this is not a problem - if you are small and puny you'll want to sit down half way through a set!!! The RD is my favourite bass to play live - I change my sound with each song, real booming bass on one song, bright snappy bass the next...

Thunderbird - I can't play thunderbirds in a live situation. The trouble (as pointed out below) is the neck diving. Now this is only a problem if you play in a certain style - fingerstyle with the bass not that low. It prevents you doing slides etc. If you play low slung with a pick - sort of played near the bridge (think Nikki six pose) it balances a LOT better. You will probably look more 'rock' standing like this - but thats just not the style I play.

Thicker straps and repositioning of the strap button will help by the way, but I don't like making extra holes in basses if I can help it!

Of course the Tbird doesn't have the array of sounds the RD has, but the sounds it does have are very well respected. More growly midtone than other Gibsons (EBs etc). If you are the kind of bass player that just sticks to one or two sounds this may well be for you.

Get both!

Jules

Timo

newbie question
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2005, 08:52:47 PM »
What a fantastic forum! Thank you all for your comments.

I'd always heard conflicting accounts on the T Bird neck dive issue. Some reviews would say it was a problem, while others would say not so much. Jules comment on the style and position of the bass having an impact somewhat clears this up for me. I'm primarily a fingerstyle player now, but I do pull out a pick for some faster stuff. The instrument is normally slung low, though I don't think I could pull off a Nikki Sixx pose if I tried.

So is the neck dive on a T Bird not as great an issue if the instrument is slung low, rather than high? And I'm also wondering if Jules' comment about neck dive with fingerstyle vs. pick-style is based on the assumption that if you play with a pick near the bridge, the palm of your hand is resting on the bridge (thereby preventing neck dive.) So, is neck dive on a T Bird still a problem if I play low slung, but fingerstyle? (no pick)

I'd also be interested to hear any comments about the new Les Paul double cutaway....

For "Doom"- sorry, it's North Dakota (not Finland)
For "Rumblekat"- I agree with you about the stripped down essence of the trio-format. Particularly in blues-rock. Good luck w/Motherlode!

Timo

Perfect fit
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2005, 09:31:18 PM »
The Les Paul Double Cut is not out yet so no one has had a good chance to really check one out. Uwe did at a guitar show, but not really close, if I remember ?

The neck dive is not as much an issue when hung low because you have to hold the neck at a large angle to play it, thus counteracting the neck dive.

Another issue is that Les Pauls tend to have chunkier necks, where T birds are slimmer ones,  like a Jazz bass.

[/quote]

Rd's
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2005, 09:35:10 PM »
RD's are great and can handle pretty much any type of music, but the Gumby shape might raise some eyebrows with some blues guys. It's a bit like bringing a BC Rich to a blues gig. The bass sounds fine, but the looks you get....

doom

  • ****
  • 264
    • View Profile
newbie question
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2005, 10:01:39 PM »
Quote
The neck dive is not as much an issue when hung low because you have to hold the neck at a large angle to play it, thus counteracting the neck dive


Correct, and another fact is that you somehow get more weight from your right arm resting on top of the body. With a good strap (=in this case not slippery) I have barely any neckdive at all on my sunburst '76. On my recently bought white '76 I can actually let the neck go with my left hand and it has no noticeable dive at all. Both have the strap button moved yo the back of where neck meets body though.

Edit: I found a couple of bad pics here:

Lookie! No hand!


Shows (not good through the smokescreen) what level I hang it:

typhoid

newbie question
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2005, 08:15:39 PM »
What is the exact weight of Gibson Thunderbird IV?

newbie question
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2005, 06:35:14 PM »
I think you can take an RD to a blues gig no sweat - it's NOT a pointy guitar, that rounded shape, if off set, looks different, but vintage. I'm not so sure about the sound though: Both the passice Standard and the active Artist are inherently clean sounding all maple basses with clear sounding pups - you won't have much warmth or growl from them. On that basis alone, I would recommend the T-Bird. If you were playing in a prog rock band, I'd recommend an RD.

Uwe

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1970 Rosetti Epiphone guitar catalogScan of 1970 Epiphone guitar catalogue produced by Rosetti for the UK market. Undated but most likely from mid-late 1970, this was the first UK catalogue to show the new range of Japanese (Matsumoku) Epiphone guitars. Interestingly, these pages show the Epiphone solid bodies with a single-sided Fender-style headstock layout - a feature quickly replaced with a typical two-sided Epiphone headstock almost immediately. Epiphone electric guitars: 9520, 9525; bass guitars: 9521, 9526; acoustic guitars: 6730, 6830, 6834
1971 A World of Guitars by Rosetti catalogueScan of 1971 Rosetti catalogue (UK) featuring guitars from from numerous manufacturers worldwide: guitars by Epiphone, Hagstrom, Levin, Hoyer, Egmond, Eros, Moridaira, Kiso-Suzuki, Schaller, and Tatra.
1971 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1971 Selmer guitar catalogue showing the range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Gibson, Yamaha, Selmer, Hofner and Suzuki. 1960s Selmer had always placed Hofner at the front end of their catalogues, no doubt these were the better sellers - but into the 1970s Hofner were slipping somewhat and only appear at the tail end of this publication, pride of place going to Gibson, and to a lesser extent Yamaha. In fact this is the last Selmer catalogue to include the many Hofner hollow bodies (Committee, President, Senator etc) that had defined the companies output for so many years - to be replaced in the 1972 catalogue by generic solid body 'copies' of Gibson and Fender models. A number of new Gibson models are included for the first time: the SG-100 and SG-200 six string guitars and the SB-300 and SB-400 basses.
1968 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1968/1969 Selmer guitar catalogue (printed July 1968), showing the entire range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Hofner, Gibson, Selmer and Giannini. Selmer were the exclusive United Kingdom distributors of Hofner and Gibson at the time, and this catalogue contains a total of 18 electric guitars, 7 bass guitars, 37 acoustics, and 2 Hawaiian guitars - all produced outside the UK and imported by Selmer, with UK prices included in guineas. This catalogue saw the (re-)introduction of the late sixties Gibson Les Paul Custom and Les Paul Standard (see page 69) and the short-lived Hofner Club 70. Other electric models include: HOFNER ELECTRICS: Committee, Verithin 66, Ambassador, President, Senator, Galaxie, HOFNER BASSES: Violin bass, Verithin bass, Senator bass, Professional bass GIBSON ELECTRICS: Barney Kessel, ES-330TD, ES-335TD, ES-345TD, ES-175D, ES-125CD, SG Standard, SG Junior, SG Special GIBSON BASSES: EB-0, EB-2, EB-3 - plus a LOT of acoustics branded Gibson, Hofner, Selmer and Giannini
1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!