Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

neck dive on EB3 basses?

barend

  • ***
  • 163
    • View Profile
neck dive on EB3 basses?
« on: March 10, 2008, 09:32:14 AM »
on my new Epi EB3 I experience quite a lot neck dive. Is that also the case on the real EB3 basses?.
Maybe it is because of the long scale neck. You also have to reach quite far with your left hand to reach the first position tones.

I was thinking to replace the strap button. It is now on the neck joint, like on al SG models. Do you think if I place this strap button on the inside of the highest body point (like on a G3 bass) that the neck dive is less?

one more related question. How is the size of the Ep3 body compared to a real EB3? is it smaller or is about the same?

neck dive on EB3 basses
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 12:50:41 PM »
Hi Barend.  I have a '68 EB3 (short scale) that does suffer 'neck dive' - I believe this could be a trait of all these models.  And, as I recall having an EB0 some 30 years ago, that suffered too.  Rather than defacing the bodywork by moving the strap buttons around, try using a broad strap made of suede, or something similar, that will not slide so much over your shoulder - also, avoid wearing slippy fabrics such as nylon, spandex, or silk shirts (!!!!).  All else failing, I suppose you could try tying a roped brick to the heel strap button.

Now that I think about it, I don't recall seeing many pics of bass players posing without a supporting hand on the neck of their EB's.

barend

  • ***
  • 163
    • View Profile
neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 01:04:20 PM »
but do you think moving the strap button would work and cure the neck dive?. Moving one strap button is not damaging the instrument so much.

You can also put an extra stap button and leave the old one where it is.

But I have to be sure that it works otherwise I won't do it.

MaxDB

neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 04:17:19 PM »
barend,

The short scale EB's that I have played suffer from neck dive because the body is so light and I imagine the longer scale neck would probably be a little worse.

I'm so used to it that I don't even notice it. I hold the neck up or squeeze the body with my picking hand.

Here's something that will let you connect your strap up to the head stock without any drilling.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Neotech-Acoustic-Guitar-and-Banjo-Adaptor-Loop?sku=469805

MaxDB

neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 04:41:34 PM »
Barend, in time you'll get used to the neck dive.
Just don't let go of the neck. No more "Look Ma: no hands!"

Seriously, the JCS and Tbird I have are both neckdivers, but it doesn't keep me from playing them.
cheers!

barend

  • ***
  • 163
    • View Profile
neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 09:02:59 PM »
thanks for your answers, good to know that not only the Epi Eb3's have that problem.

Any ever tried my 'method'? my G3 has the strap button on the same place as I describe.

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
neck dive
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2008, 09:42:52 PM »
yes, that probably will solve the problem - thunderbirds are far worse divers - and my non rev thankfully already has the extra button - the difference between the two positions is quite considerable

Though I have to say i've never really noticed dive on my EBs, and I don't own an Epi EB

Depending on how bad the dive is, you may not need to add to much weight to the body to get a better balance

A good strap helps, as mentioned, but also try using a long heavy lead, and letting some of it hang down before feeding through the strap and to the amp.

You could even put some extra weight in the control cavity. Is there much room in there?

barend

  • ***
  • 163
    • View Profile
Re: neck dive
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2008, 10:34:35 PM »
Quote from: jules
but also try using a long heavy lead, and letting some of it hang down before feeding through the strap and to the amp.

You could even put some extra weight in the control cavity. Is there much room in there?


Jules, can you explain what you mean by that first sentence?.

and how do you attach some weight in the control cavity?

neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2008, 09:39:04 PM »
Quote from: MaxDB
barend wrote:-

The short scale EB's that I have played suffer from neck dive because the body is so light and I imagine the longer scale neck would probably be a little worse.



You're right! The long scale EB3 is really badly balanced and mine has a twisted neck too :(
Any one want to buy it?
Mike

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Re: neck dive
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2008, 01:46:27 PM »
What year EB3L are you talkiang about? An early split headstock model, or a '72 onwards maple neck version?

Re: neck dive on EB3 basses
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2008, 01:48:35 PM »
Quote from: mjl1644
try using a broad strap made of suede, or something similar, that will not slide so much over your shoulder - also, avoid wearing slippy fabrics such as nylon, spandex, or silk shirts (!!!!).


Thats it... a 3-4" (80-100mm) wide leather/suede strap should be the end of your problem.  That's what I did years ago and I don't even think about neck dive anymore except when I read about everyone else's complaints.  Now when my band is covering Free's "All Right Now" I can clap with my hands up over my head or play the cowbell, and not just stand there holding my bass till the end of the song!  
Unless your bass has an extended horn on the bass side like a Fender P/J, there is no need to mount the strap there.  The SG horn is almost in line with  the neck and I don't think there is enough offset.
Keep in mind I play with my bass low at my hip or belt line, not up high on the chest like some do.

Re: neck dive
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2008, 03:57:01 PM »
Quote from: jules
What year EB3L are you talkiang about? An early split headstock model, or a '72 onwards maple neck version?


Well it isn't a split head model so I guess it's the '72 version.
Mike

seano

neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2008, 10:54:01 PM »
I've never experienced neck dive on my SG-RI, even using a semi-wide leather strap.

neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 12:47:33 AM »
I have a 64 Gibson EB-O I've played for years and I've never had any problems with neck dive.  But I did try out an Epi EB-O a few years ago and it had tremendous neck dive.  I gathered that that was the result of a larger Epi headstock.

neck dive on EB3 basses?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2008, 12:12:27 AM »
Does your bass have straplocks on it? I know this sounds dumb, but putting on straplocks has made a difference for me on guitars with the button on the neckjoint. It usually makes them lean out more, and towards the neck less. Plus if it turns out worse you can always convert the buttons back to original and return the straplocks.
What does the back of my head look like?

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1970 Rosetti Epiphone guitar catalogScan of 1970 Epiphone guitar catalogue produced by Rosetti for the UK market. Undated but most likely from mid-late 1970, this was the first UK catalogue to show the new range of Japanese (Matsumoku) Epiphone guitars. Interestingly, these pages show the Epiphone solid bodies with a single-sided Fender-style headstock layout - a feature quickly replaced with a typical two-sided Epiphone headstock almost immediately. Epiphone electric guitars: 9520, 9525; bass guitars: 9521, 9526; acoustic guitars: 6730, 6830, 6834
1971 A World of Guitars by Rosetti catalogueScan of 1971 Rosetti catalogue (UK) featuring guitars from from numerous manufacturers worldwide: guitars by Epiphone, Hagstrom, Levin, Hoyer, Egmond, Eros, Moridaira, Kiso-Suzuki, Schaller, and Tatra.
1971 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1971 Selmer guitar catalogue showing the range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Gibson, Yamaha, Selmer, Hofner and Suzuki. 1960s Selmer had always placed Hofner at the front end of their catalogues, no doubt these were the better sellers - but into the 1970s Hofner were slipping somewhat and only appear at the tail end of this publication, pride of place going to Gibson, and to a lesser extent Yamaha. In fact this is the last Selmer catalogue to include the many Hofner hollow bodies (Committee, President, Senator etc) that had defined the companies output for so many years - to be replaced in the 1972 catalogue by generic solid body 'copies' of Gibson and Fender models. A number of new Gibson models are included for the first time: the SG-100 and SG-200 six string guitars and the SB-300 and SB-400 basses.
1968 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1968/1969 Selmer guitar catalogue (printed July 1968), showing the entire range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Hofner, Gibson, Selmer and Giannini. Selmer were the exclusive United Kingdom distributors of Hofner and Gibson at the time, and this catalogue contains a total of 18 electric guitars, 7 bass guitars, 37 acoustics, and 2 Hawaiian guitars - all produced outside the UK and imported by Selmer, with UK prices included in guineas. This catalogue saw the (re-)introduction of the late sixties Gibson Les Paul Custom and Les Paul Standard (see page 69) and the short-lived Hofner Club 70. Other electric models include: HOFNER ELECTRICS: Committee, Verithin 66, Ambassador, President, Senator, Galaxie, HOFNER BASSES: Violin bass, Verithin bass, Senator bass, Professional bass GIBSON ELECTRICS: Barney Kessel, ES-330TD, ES-335TD, ES-345TD, ES-175D, ES-125CD, SG Standard, SG Junior, SG Special GIBSON BASSES: EB-0, EB-2, EB-3 - plus a LOT of acoustics branded Gibson, Hofner, Selmer and Giannini
1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!