Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« on: February 13, 2008, 08:29:47 PM »
Love the bass!  A great alternative to P styles.  The one I have has turned from Silver to a greenish-gold and is well banged up.  However, great neck and in overall very good shape for use.  The only thing I have even found to be problematic is the action is way too high and the pickup selector switch is worn and has movement.  The wedge bridge won't go any lower and the brass nut was cut very high.   I was wondering if anyone else with a Victory had any bridge/action problems?  If you replaced this bridge, what did you replace it with?  Recommendations for where to find a switch for the pickup?

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Victory
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 05:55:59 AM »
I'm surprised you are having problems with the bridge, that design is far more adjustable than anything that came before it.

Maybe it is the neck that needs adjusting a bit, or like you say the nut is not quite right. Can you tell whether it is original or a replacement?

Might be worth taking it to get set up...

I think I actually prefer the green-colour they go, to the original silver  :D

Do the Shimmy!/It has nothing to do with the bridge!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 12:05:01 PM »
That is not too uncommon with Victories, two of my four have had it, all have retained their original Schaller bridge which I like for its looks and the "Gibson" embossed on it.

What you need to do is shim the neck: Many Victories show a generous neck pocket as over time the maple wood loses volume/shrinks. That asffects the neck/body angle so that the upper register is too low for even your lowest action bridge setting. Putting a very thin piece of flat plastic, metal, wood or even cardboard in the neck cavity (you have to unscrew the neck for that) to the bridge side changes the angle so the upper register becomes slightly elevated - voilĂ , no more action problems though you still might have to tighten or untighten the truss rod a little.

It's not a complicated operation, at worst you might overshim a little initially (it only takes very little shimming material for quite an angle change) and have to remove some of the shimming material in a second step.

If the prospect of unscrewing the neck daunts you  :shock: , you can also use taper core strings which via their smaller diameter at the saddle will lead to a much lower action. But shimming is the proper way to do it. But as a Fenderista, you probably already know all about shimming, right?  :D

But keep that bridge on for Chrisssakes! It's quite a sustain provider with the huge base it has. I put a spare Victory bridge on an EB-0L and the latter's sustain is now noticeably higher than with a two point or three point bridge.

Isn't the switch just a plain Jane two way (with a Standard) or three way (with Customs and Artists) mini toggle?

Uwe

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2008, 02:06:39 PM »
I spoke to a repairman about it and he suggested a small shim also.  Never had to do it before believe it or not.  Used to play very aggressively and had three basses refretted in 3 years due to the number of shows and rehearsals they went through.  Appreciate the input and tips guys!  That's what I love about this forum.   Fenderista?  Maybe some truth to that, but I must admit on first inspection the Victory may be the coolest P style ever :)   I've been yearning to convert you know.  I am amazed how solid and straight that neck seems since '81.  The goldish green is kinda cool indeed.  The nut looks like the orginal brass.   Bridge works fine, I just have it low as possible and action is still half an inch.   Strange design, but very easy to use.   I've noticed that the cut on the top of the neck pocket seems too wide on all the Victories I've seen.  However, the neck is tight and seems great.  Was this in the original design or is this a quality control issue also?

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2008, 02:13:45 PM »
Oh yeah, the switch is a simple two way.  Just never had one before on a bass and wondered if there was somewhere simple to find that part.  I have always used active EMGs due to the simplicity.  I don't want to butcher the Victory, but I bet an EMG soapbar would be pretty mighty.  I just replaced both Epi Rippers with active EMGs and I am glad I did so far.  Not so docile all of a sudden.

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2008, 05:47:31 PM »
"I've noticed that the cut on the top of the neck pocket seems too wide on all the Victories I've seen. However, the neck is tight and seems great. Was this in the original design or is this a quality control issue also?"

Maple shrinks like hell. And with the Vic the problem is excerbated by a maple neck AND a maple body. The maple necks are twist-resistant via their three layers, but they do shrink. As does the neck cavity of the body. Might be that Gibson underestimated shrinkage of the maple (or that their rugged Victories would live to see the day of such shrinkage) and what were at first perfectly sized cavities became too deep/large over time. And remember how we are after all talking about different organic sources here: One piece of maple might shrink more than a piece from another tree. There are old Victories that can do without a shim, at least for now, who knows whether they will need one in ten years from now.

Phil Jones, nineties Gibson luthier (and avid Victory hater which he referred to as "The Loser") once quipped: "Gibson never really learned how to do a proper bolt-on bass." I guess if Fender started building set necks they would have some issues too.

In any case, a shim (be it on a Victory or a Fender) is not a major repair.

Uwe

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2008, 07:30:28 PM »
Def gonna try a shim.  I don't think I explained the neck pocket very well.  I was trying to say that the neck is well secured to the body without any movement/play in it.  The small side/bottom is snug with the neck, but the top/long side has an even open groove that the neck doesn't make contact with.  I understand the shrinkage explanation and it clearly makes sense to me as I have done some odd woodwork in my life.  However, this appears like the cut is off a bit, or simply too large.  Doesn't affect sound or playing feel at all.   I am impressed with the neck itself, especially since it is an '81 model. And the neck alignment seems right on with the bridge. I can see why everyone snaps the headstock off. I've already smacked everything in sight.

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 05:14:05 AM »
Quote from: Gripper
but the top/long side has an even open groove that the neck doesn't make contact with


Yeah my Victory Artist was like this (and maybe the custom and standard too - i'll have to check). Its just the way they did them I think

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 01:35:30 PM »
Put in a shim and worked immediately. Surprising how thin/small it needed to be actually.  I appreciate the help guys, that's why I love this forum.  When I removed the neck, the heel has a stamp of "June 16, 1982" and the number "17".  In pencil is signed "Dianne" it appears.   The serial number begins 8161682 if my memory is right, which I found interesting considering you guys say don't go by them for accuracy. If it was intended to be "year of debut/day/month/year of production" then this may make sense.  Except the day would be backwards!

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 03:00:54 PM »
All is well that ends well.  :)

jules

  • *****
  • 3068
    • View Profile
serial number
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2008, 09:09:04 PM »
Quote from: Gripper
The serial number begins 8161682 if my memory is right, which I found interesting considering you guys say don't go by them for accuracy.


After '78 they used the 8 digit serial numbers, and these are accurate. It's just the pre-78 numbers that are (next to) useless.

The serial numbers go like this YDDDYXXX

Where YY is the year
DDD is the day of the year
XXX is the number of instruments stamped that day

So, 8161682 presumably has a number missing.... but would be from the 161st day of 1986. XXX would either have been the number stamped that day (001-499) made at the Kalamazoo plant, or (501-999) the Nashville plant.

so 82X would be the 32X instrument stamped at Nashville on the 161st day of '86

Thats a big gap compared to the date in the neck pocket... how good is your memory?  :wink:

Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2008, 11:57:25 PM »
It is actually 81682508.  I could not remember it for anything early this morning and I tried anyways. So it was made the 168th day of '82 and was the 508th instrument produced that year.  Cool, thanks for the clarification! I am eager to start working with the sound of this thing now!

doom

  • ****
  • 264
    • View Profile
Got a Victory Standard Bass, my first REAL Gibson
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2008, 01:05:42 AM »
Quote from: Gripper
It is actually 81682508.  I could not remember it for anything early this morning and I tried anyways. So it was made the 168th day of '82 and was the 508th instrument produced that year.  Cool, thanks for the clarification! I am eager to start working with the sound of this thing now!


It seems yours would be the 8th instrument made that day at the Nashville plant.

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1970 Rosetti Epiphone guitar catalogScan of 1970 Epiphone guitar catalogue produced by Rosetti for the UK market. Undated but most likely from mid-late 1970, this was the first UK catalogue to show the new range of Japanese (Matsumoku) Epiphone guitars. Interestingly, these pages show the Epiphone solid bodies with a single-sided Fender-style headstock layout - a feature quickly replaced with a typical two-sided Epiphone headstock almost immediately. Epiphone electric guitars: 9520, 9525; bass guitars: 9521, 9526; acoustic guitars: 6730, 6830, 6834
1971 A World of Guitars by Rosetti catalogueScan of 1971 Rosetti catalogue (UK) featuring guitars from from numerous manufacturers worldwide: guitars by Epiphone, Hagstrom, Levin, Hoyer, Egmond, Eros, Moridaira, Kiso-Suzuki, Schaller, and Tatra.
1971 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1971 Selmer guitar catalogue showing the range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Gibson, Yamaha, Selmer, Hofner and Suzuki. 1960s Selmer had always placed Hofner at the front end of their catalogues, no doubt these were the better sellers - but into the 1970s Hofner were slipping somewhat and only appear at the tail end of this publication, pride of place going to Gibson, and to a lesser extent Yamaha. In fact this is the last Selmer catalogue to include the many Hofner hollow bodies (Committee, President, Senator etc) that had defined the companies output for so many years - to be replaced in the 1972 catalogue by generic solid body 'copies' of Gibson and Fender models. A number of new Gibson models are included for the first time: the SG-100 and SG-200 six string guitars and the SB-300 and SB-400 basses.
1968 Selmer guitar catalogueScan of 1968/1969 Selmer guitar catalogue (printed July 1968), showing the entire range of electric and acoustic guitars distributed by the company: guitars by Hofner, Gibson, Selmer and Giannini. Selmer were the exclusive United Kingdom distributors of Hofner and Gibson at the time, and this catalogue contains a total of 18 electric guitars, 7 bass guitars, 37 acoustics, and 2 Hawaiian guitars - all produced outside the UK and imported by Selmer, with UK prices included in guineas. This catalogue saw the (re-)introduction of the late sixties Gibson Les Paul Custom and Les Paul Standard (see page 69) and the short-lived Hofner Club 70. Other electric models include: HOFNER ELECTRICS: Committee, Verithin 66, Ambassador, President, Senator, Galaxie, HOFNER BASSES: Violin bass, Verithin bass, Senator bass, Professional bass GIBSON ELECTRICS: Barney Kessel, ES-330TD, ES-335TD, ES-345TD, ES-175D, ES-125CD, SG Standard, SG Junior, SG Special GIBSON BASSES: EB-0, EB-2, EB-3 - plus a LOT of acoustics branded Gibson, Hofner, Selmer and Giannini
1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!