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EBO dating questions

EBO dating questions
« on: January 24, 2008, 06:59:34 PM »
I have an EBO that I was trying to sell but a potential customer told me that it had been abused. The colour looks like a natural mahogany finish common on some 70's models. It is dinged up and the thickness of the finish looks normal, but he thought it had been refinished. I found a website that said there were some natural finish SG guitars produced in 1961. The finish looks just like mine. The finish on the back of the peghead looks like it was applied over the stamped s/n. Part of the s/n is covered by the back of the "elephant ear" style tuning keys. But the number looks like 10977. Could that be valid? It has a solid white pickguard. I have ordered a replacement b-w-b pickguard for it, but I just stumbled across a picture of an EBO online that indeed did have a white pickguard. Did they ever use white pickguards? The pickup has a metal cover with screws across the middle. Any ideas about authenticity of these questionable parts?

Dave W

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EBO dating questions
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 06:39:59 AM »
I'm not aware of any pre-1970 EB-0s shipped in natural and none with a white guard; the late 60s EB-0 style Melody Maker bass had a white guard but it's a much larger guard and was only available in two metallic colors.

Have any pics? Hard to tell anything without seeing it.

My theory of the dating of this EBO
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 04:39:11 PM »
I have done some online research of EBO's and reached a conclusion. Please correct me if you think I am wrong because I would like to identify this bass correctly before trying to sell it. I have found 1966 models with "elephant ear" style tuners (like the 65's) and the newer style (like the 67's). The back plates of the two different styles of tuners are of different sizes. The holes for the A and D string posts are located higher on the headstock starting in 1966 (closer to the Gibson inlay and 1/2" higher than the tip of the center torch inlay). The new location of the holes works fine for the new style of tuners, but if elephant ears are installed, the lower half of the serial number is covered by the back plates of the tuners. I think that the decision was made in 1966 to use the new tuners and the new hole spacing but there were some old elephant ears remaining in stock which were used. Still, my s/n looks like 10977. It should be six digits if its a '66. The s/n is very faint like it was sanded down. Since the natural color is not standard to the '66 model. I think this guitar had a factory refinish in the 70's, using a Gibson 70's finish. I noticed that a chunk of the body at the control cavity had been glued back in ( a pretty good job) so this may have lead to a factory refinish. The white pickguard could have been added at any old time. I am replacing the pickguard with a b-w-b and selling her as a refinished '66. Any idea of the value?

EBO dating questions
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 09:55:09 PM »
Refinishes usually knock 1/2 off of the value.  The 2008 price lists an excellent condition EB-0 of that year at $1750 at the top.  If your's is moderately banged up and has some non-original parts, you might get $700 if you are lucky.  But as they say, a picture is worth 1000 words, so post them if you want more accurate information.  Dating and pricing can be helped by looking at the hardware and other features.
Huh?

EBO dating questions
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 11:18:56 PM »
Maybe this works. Here is a snapfish link. I just found two 66 EBO's in a Pelham Blue colour. I think this was a factory colour. Could there have been some natural finished EBO's ordered special in 66?

http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=209428398/a=22684380_22684380/t_=22684380

EBO dating questions
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 01:50:35 AM »
That is the 2 point bridge which came into use about 1967 on some basses.  That is most likely a 1967-1970 era (maybe as late as 1972), based upon the placement of the pickup and the bridge.  That definitely is a refinish, they didn't have a natural like that appears to be, but a Walnut finish which was darker than what your guitar is, was an option, but more in the 1970's than 1960's.   Have you looked into the electronics cavity, that usually was painted and may show it's original color.   Also, are there any small screw holes on either side of the bridge?  Or are there screwholes on either side of the strings midway between the bridge and the pickup?  And of course the pickguard is the wrong color.  Someone years ago decided they wanted to do a little "customizing" of their EB-0---that is not uncommon since I have seen many EB-0s with modifications.  It looks like the hardware is original, even having the mute on the bridge.  The knobs may not be original and there is a missing bridge cover/handrest.

Unfortunately, because of the refin, that will cut the value in half as a collectable.  You might find a buyer willing to part with $700-$800.
Huh?

66ish EBO
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 05:37:35 PM »
My finger rest was halfway between the bridge and pickup like a 66. I think that Gibson moved the finger rests to the bridge in 67 or 68. I also think they stopped using elephant ear style tuners midway in 1966. Thanks for the help. I guess it was refinished but it was a good job at least. I may just hold on to it as it plays like buttah.

eb2

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EBO dating questions
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 09:05:09 PM »
Buttah is good.  I have loved it ever since Last Tango In Paris.
boom

maybe its a 68
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 09:31:06 PM »
I saw that movie but that's not the kind of buttah that my bass plays like. Anyway, I have been googling these things and I don't think that my bridge came into being until 1968. My bridge does not have the finger rest screw holes. My finger rest was halfway between the bridge and pickup. I also found some 68's that had elephant ear tuners which covered up half of the serial number on the back. So I guess I was wrong about those going away in 66. I have found several EBO's with finishes called "faded cherry finish". I just wonder if the red can fade away to the natural shade with enough UV exposure.

doom

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Re: maybe its a 68
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2008, 12:52:38 AM »
Quote from: laddyjota
I just wonder if the red can fade away to the natural shade with enough UV exposure.


It would be easy to see by looking underneath the pickguard. The finish usually does'nt fade that much being protected from most of the UV light.

Dave W

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Re: maybe its a 68
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2008, 03:31:06 AM »
Quote from: laddyjota
I have found several EBO's with finishes called "faded cherry finish". I just wonder if the red can fade away to the natural shade with enough UV exposure.


IMHO, no. I've seen plenty of cherry finishes heavily faded from longterm UV exposure, but they don't look like yours.

The last late 60s refin EB-0 I saw personally was last summer in San Antonio, it was a white refin with otherwise all original parts and the retail asking price was $850.

jules

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refin
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2008, 04:12:33 AM »
It looks like the top of the headstock (back) has been sanded - giving a curved edge. This is a sign of a refin - it is hard to keep these edges perfect when removing the old finish.

Its hard to say, but it looks like the neck is a different colour to the body... has the neck been replaced maybe?

eb2

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EBO dating questions
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2008, 06:24:07 AM »
I finally looked at the pics.  My estimate - 1967 or possibly 68, refin, homebrew guard, kept the finger rest.  The knobs are probably original.  The tuners are the good ones, but you see EB0s and EB3s with the Japanese ones in the same period.  If you have holes for the ornamental chrome hand rest midway, and no holes alongside the bridge then it would lean to being a 67 with the early installation of the newer style bridge.  I suspect they did not come up with the bridge cover for the two point right away, and used up the old rest pieces.  Assuming there are no breaks in the headstock or neck joint, it is a decent bass.  Jules' observation of the loss of edge to the headstock is a dead giveaway for homebrew refin, but the good thing is whomever did it at least kept the serial number intact.  Which is cool as it probably wasn't stolen.  A nice old EB0.
boom

1967 EBO pickguard question
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2008, 01:55:27 PM »
I received my replacement pickguard and it is 5-ply b-w-b-w-b instead of what I expected (3-ply b-w-b). Which is historically accurate for a 67 (or maybe 68) Gibson EBO?

Re: refin
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2008, 04:41:51 PM »
Quote from: jules
It looks like the top of the headstock (back) has been sanded - giving a curved edge. This is a sign of a refin - it is hard to keep these edges perfect when removing the old finish.

Its hard to say, but it looks like the neck is a different colour to the body... has the neck been replaced maybe?


I have a once cherry EB-4 were the body has faded to exactly walnut brown with only a few irregular blotches on the back of the neck retaining a faint reddish hue indicating that this was once indeed a cherry bass. Holding an original walnut bass to it in comparison, the only difference is that the "new walnut" (ex-cherry) has more depth and luster than the original wanut on the other bass (both basses are 1972/73 models). But you have to squint your eyes to really notice.

Uwe

 

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