Vintage Guitar and Bass forum

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« on: November 23, 2015, 04:49:55 PM »
Hey Folks:

I’m a newbie here accept some browsing the site for info. I’m looking for valuation (appraisal) and trying to determine exactly what it is I have. I’m “considering” selling, but have not made up my mind on this just yet?

I’m “pretty certain” its a 1969 Gibson Les Paul Recording Bass. I say “pretty certain” because I’m at a big disadvantage for a couple reasons…

1)   I was never into gear at all. I’ve always been a plug-n-play kinda guy. Give me a bass, an amp, and I was good to go.
2)   I bought the bass second hand in 1977. I don’t guess the seller had any reason to lie about the year or model, because it wasn’t anything special at that time.
3)   I’m almost blind, and have no idea where to locate the serial number? ( any help with that? )

I haven’t played in 20 years, so I have no connections where I live. However, I do have a close friend in New England that owns a music school. ( The Real School of Music ) I had him ask his best bass man, and he provided a suggested starting price AND realistic price to settle for.

I’m just looking for 1 or 2 more opinions to see if everyone is in the same ballpark. I am going to take it to my local music store, but I figure you guys probably know best, and don’t necessarily need to hold it in your hands to give an approximate “asking price” & “let it go” price. If a couple of you chime in, I’ll share what my friend told me. Yes, I saw the recent thread about this, and also saw the ebay post going for 4K. I read the replies, so I’m not expecting anything like that. I also saw a couple ads selling hard-shell cases "only" for $200-$400... Really? Is that accurate?

One important note:
The bass has been altered. At one gig I accidently stepped on the chord while rockin' out. This pulled the jack right out, leaving it hanging. Unable to find a replacement face plate, my local tech at the time relocated the jack to the side body AND converted it to XLR. As you'll see, I also didn't pay much attention to what my belt buckle was doing over time. "If I only know what I had"!

Again, I’m not even sure if I’m going to sell, but this is FAR from my area of expertise, so I’m just curious for feedback. Thank you for your hopeful help!  Tom

( You can open pics in a new window for a much larger image )
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:39:10 PM by tomroe1 »

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 03:57:38 PM »
What you have is a 1972 Les Paul Triumph bass. The VG Price Guide lists it from $1,700 to $2,125. Watch what they actually sell for on ebay & Reverb. A lot of them get listed for large amounts, but what they actuall sell for is what counts. Yours being altered will lower the price some. That being said, it is the first year of that model, no volute. I have a 1972 & a 1973, the '72 has been my "GO-TO" bass for years.

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 06:29:14 PM »
Thank You SO MUCH George!

I’ve had at least 4-5 different techs look at this over the years. Not one has ever questioned the model or year? The local big music store offered me $350. All these years I never knew what I had, and now you’ve given me enough info to do more research and ebay watching. (I’m not familiar with reverb, but I’ll figure it out)

I was going to buy a new case, but the lowest I’ve seen on ebay is $200. I don’t guess that’s worth the return on investment. I also considered having it refinished, but I know you’d probably tell me I’d get the best sale price if I just leave it “As Is”?

Again, MAJOR thanks George. I trust folks here more than any local shop looking out for themselves. (as they should be) This bass plays so sweet, but if I don’t get into a band soon… it might be time.

The one last question I would ask… do you know exactly “where" on the bass I would find the serial number?
I know that’s important to some.  

Thanks, Tom
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 06:38:00 PM by tomroe1 »

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 12:11:17 AM »
The serial number is just above the "Made in USA" stamp on the back of the headstock, towards the top. You case looks repairable to me. A little glue & shoe polish & it could look better than many cases sold on ebay.
I'll post a photo of my '70 Les Paul Bass & My '73 so yo can see the difference. They started using the three point bridge in '73.

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 04:34:42 PM »
Hey George:

I can not tell you how INVALUABLE your help has been. I'm by no means a hack, and have played with some pretty smokin' musicians in the Boston area. BUT... I just never was bitten by the gear bug. My favorite player growing up was Mel Schacher from Grand Funk. As long as my bass had a volume & tone knob, all I needed was a Fender Bassman or a kickin' Ampeg.

You've "paid it forward" to me like I do on some of the computer forums. For the past 10 years I've been the Director of a men's Barbershop chorus and the lead singer in a barbershop quartet. How I got from playing Black Sabbath to singing Let Me Call You Sweerheart still amazes me, but I'm forever grateful for your guidance. The thought of rehabbing my case never even occurred to me!!!

Thanks again, and just know that you made a big difference in someone's life!  

Tom

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2015, 02:11:03 AM »
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the kind words! Being able to sing like you do is a great gift by itself. I have a hard time singing the Happy Birthday song! My '72 Triumph bass was altered when I bought it. Somebody had changed the two point bridge for a Badass bridge. They had to plug a few holes & did a nasty refine on the front of the bass. It also had a minor headstock repair. When I did finally buy the one pictured, I had myself convinced that I would sell the '72. Like you, I was only offered an extremely low price to buy it at the time & decided for that I would keep it as a trunk bass. I have collected many other Gibson basses since then, & this is still my favorite player. My original thought was that if it got damaged on a job, I wouldn't be out much. The truth is, I'd probably miss it most of all. Think twice before you sell yours, at least take the time to get what it's really worth. Here is the '72.........

1969 Les Paul Recording Bass... I Think???
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2015, 02:37:58 AM »
P.S..... This is my cheapo handle repair. Just a replacement handle, cut the hardware off. Cut the long rivet off of the handle bracket on the guitar case. Buy a couple long screws, (I think mine is a #5). I added a nut all the way to the screw head & an acorn nut for the opposite end. I cut them to length with an electrical crimping plyers with thread shearing built in. I've done this to many of my cases, this case is actually for the '72 Triumph.........

 

Recent posts on vintage guitar and bass

1961 Hofner Colorama IHofner Colorama was the name UK distributor Selmer gave to a series of solid and semi-solid guitars built by Hofner for distribution in the UK. The construction and specifications of the guitars varied over the period of production, but by 1961 it was a totally solid, double cutaway instrument, with a set neck, translucent cherry finish, six-in-a-row headstock, and Hofner Diamond logo pickups. Available as a single or dual pickup guitar, this sngle pickup version would have been sold in mainland Europe as the Hofner 161.
1971 Commodore N25 (Matsumoku)Commodore was a brand applied to a series of guitars produced in Japan at the well-respected Matsumoku plant from the late 1960s to the mid 1970s - and sold primarily (perhaps exclusively?) in the United Kingdom. The models bearing the Commodore name were all guitars available from different distributors with different branding. Although there may have been some minor changes in appointments (specifically headstock branding) most had the same basic bodies, hardware and construction. Equivalent models to the Commodore N25 (and this is by no means an exhaustive list) include the Aria 5102T, Conrad 5102T(?), Electra 2221, Lyle 5102T, Ventura V-1001, Univox Coily - and most famously the Epiphone 5102T / Epiphone EA-250.
1960 Hofner Colorama IIThe Hofner Colorama was the name given by Selmer to a series of solid (and semi-solid) body Hofner guitars distributed in the United Kingdom between 1958 and 1965. The Colorama name actually applied to some quite different guitars over the period, but in 1960 it was a very light, semi-solid, set necked guitar with one (Colorama I) or two (Colorama II, as seen here) Toaster pickups. Although an entry-level guitar, it was very well-built, and a fine playing guitar; certainly a step up (at least in terms of craftsmanship) from many of the Colorama guitars that would follow, and a good deal of the guitars available in Britain circa 1960.
1971 Epiphone 1820 (ET-280) bassBy the end of the 1960s, a decision had been made to move Epiphone guitar production from the USA (at the Kalamazoo plant where Gibson guitars were made), to Matsumoto in Japan, creating a line of guitars and basses significantly less expensive than the USA-built models (actually less than half the price). The Matsumoku factory had been producing guitars for export for some time, but the 1820 bass (alongside a number of guitar models and the 5120 electric acoustic bass) were the first Epiphone models to be made there. These new Epiphones were based on existing Matsumoku guitars, sharing body shapes, and hardware, but the Epiphone line was somewhat upgraded, with inlaid logos and a 2x2 peghead configuration. Over the course of the 70s, the Japanese output improved dramatically, and in many ways these early 70s models are a low point for the brand. Having said this, there are a lot worse guitars out there, and as well as being historically important, the 1820 bass can certainly provide the goods when required.
1981 Gibson MarauderProduction of Bill Lawrence's Gibson Marauder began in 1974, with production peaking in 1978. But by 1980 the model was officially discontinued, though very small numbers slipped out as late as spring 1981. Over 7000 examples shipped between 1974 and 1979, and although no totals are available for 1980 and 1981, it is unlikely production reached three figures in either of these years. These final Marauders were all assembled at the Gibson Nashville plant, and had some nice features not available through the later years of production, such as a rosewood fretboard, and in this case, an opaque 'Devil Red' finish. It's a great looking and fine playing guitar!
1971 Pick Epiphone catalogWhen Epiphone production moved from Kalamazoo to the Matsumoku plant in Japan, a whole new range of electric, flattop and classic acoustic guitars was launched. Between late 1970 and 1972 the new models were launched and refined. This 'folder' catalog contains various inserts released over these years detailing four electric six-strings (ET-270, ET-275, ET-278, and thinline EA-250), three bass guitars (ET-280, ET-285, and thinline EA-260), three folk/steel acoustics, four jumbo flattop acoustics, two 12-string jumbos, four classic acoustics, and a banjo.
1981 Gibson Specials Pre-Owners Manual'Gibson Specials' was part of the June 1981 pre-owners manual series, but unlike the other folders contained a mish-mash of different guitars: limited editions, test marketing and close outs. "You will find the unusual, the brand-new, and the bargain within this folder". End of line 70s guitars like the Marauder, S-1, and L-6S Custom mixed in with brand new models the The V, The Explorer and the Flying V Bass.
It was the largest folder in the series, with 24 inserts, (19 guitars and 5 basses): Guitars: 335-S Standard, Melody Maker Double, Marauder, L-6S Custom, S-1, RD Artist, Firebird, Firebird II, Flying V, Flying V-II, The V, Explorer, Explorer II, The Explorer, The "SG" Standard, Les Paul Artist, Les Paul Artisan, ES-335 Heritage, ES-175/CC Basses: Grabber, G-3, L-9S, RD Artist Bass, Flying V Bass
1970s Shaftesbury 3263 bass Rose-Morris were selling Shaftesbury-branded Rickenbacker copy instruments from the late 1960s right through the 1970s. The 3263 bass was one of the first models, (alongside the 3261 six string and 3262 twelve string) available from late 1968 until about 1974. The earliest incarnation was a set neck bass, produced very briefly in Japan. But production quickly moved to Italy. This bolt-on neck example was built by Eko, in Recanati, using the same hardware and pickups as fitted to Eko, and Vox basses built around the same time. It's certainly a fine looking bass, and not a bad player either.
1961 Hohner Zambesi This very early, and pretty rare British-built guitar is branded Hohner London. Hohner were, of course, a German company, better known for their harmonicas and accordions, but they were keenly expanding into guitars at the birth of the 1960s. This model, along with the Hohner Amazon and (particularly) the Hohner Holborn, bear some similarity with Vox guitars of the same period; furniture manufacturer Stuart Darkins constructed bodies and necks for both brands, with Fenton Weill assembling them using their hardware and pickups. These guitars do have some hardware peculiarities, and they are not the most adjustable of instruments, but they actually play very nicely, being solidly built out of some very nice woods. Check out the video on this page.