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My 1975 4001, but....

My 1975 4001, but....
« on: May 10, 2010, 02:20:48 PM »
Hi all,  I've just picked up a 1975 4001 that I've identified using the Rickenbacker serial number decoder.  Thing is I've noticed the bridge, tuners and fret inlays are different than most.  Can anyone enlighten me on the "who's, what's, and where's" of this bass?  That would be great!

Thanks,
Dennis

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 03:20:14 PM »
Hi Dennis; I have a genuine 1975 4001 and it looks nothing like that. First impression is that it's simply a copy, as well as the unusual tailpiece, etc., the fretboard is all wrong (should have the standard wedge shape markings or dots in the centre on 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.).

I have the definitive book on Rickenbackers and will search in case there's a special edition like that, but I'm not hopeful.

Had the fretboard been correct I would have thought that someone had simply changed all the other parts. Rickenbacker plastic decals and old jackplates from scrapped guitars are still available and sometimes put on copies unfortunately.

Mike.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 03:44:19 PM by Repairman77 »
Retired Radio and Electronics Engineer residing in Cambridgeshire.

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 03:38:22 PM »
Well I searched through the Ricky book by Richard R. Smith which has the entire history of Rickenbackers and I can't find anything like it; which didn't surprise me, so unless anyone else knows different then I assume it's a copy which has had the genuine or a fake jackplate and logo added.

However if it plays OK fine; except I don't think it's a Ricky.

Hope you didn't pay too much; a genuine one from that year would fetch between £1K and £2K depending on condition.

Mike.
Retired Radio and Electronics Engineer residing in Cambridgeshire.

mrbass

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Ricky 4001
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 03:44:26 PM »
I don't know about this one. I have seen those (schaller?) machines on rics before.
 
Certainly never seen a bridge like that though. As for the inlays - never seen those either, but I suppose they could have been custom ordered, or the result of a new fretboard.
 
Some features (like the lack of binding below the bridge) don't appear on most copies. I take it that this is neck-through?
 
If the jack has the serial number, it is certainly a good sign. I'd contact rickenbacker, and find out what colour the bass with your sn was, and any other details they have. Maybe this was a parted out body that non-original parts have been added to, but hopefully not this jack.
 
Do you have pics of under the truss rod cover, and under the pickguard. These could be quite telling.
 
Good luck - hope you have the genuine article
Ricky

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 04:03:35 PM »
Thanks for your input MrBass; I suppose the body could be correct with a new fretboard and tailpiece but that dot arrangement on the side of the fretboard worries me. I'll have a search through the book text again in case there was that option but I've never seen it before.
More research needed I guess. If he can contact Ricky and see what colour that serial no. relates to that would be a help if they still do that.
Interesting.
Mike.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 04:23:28 PM by Repairman77 »
Retired Radio and Electronics Engineer residing in Cambridgeshire.

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 04:22:07 PM »
Nothing in the book about dot inlays on the side. If it had a new fretboard why did they not keep it original; doesn't make sense.
Any ideas what that tailpiece came from MrBass?
The plot thickens. :?
Mike.
Retired Radio and Electronics Engineer residing in Cambridgeshire.

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 06:29:41 PM »
Hi guys,

thanks a lot for the replies.  I'm kind of wary but I've noticed that the truss looks very much original (why on earth copy that?) and the serial number is also quite original looking.  I don't know why one would throw away the original to get this.  I'm going to try and contact rickenbacker and get some more info.  New Pics are attached.

Best,
Dennis

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 07:13:46 PM »
Just found out that these tuning pegs did exist and they are the "reverse" type.  
I've written RB and hope for a reply.  I won't give up hope yet!:)

Best,
Dennis

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 07:32:14 PM »
Hi Dennis; well the jack plate is definitely original; mine is OJ and about 100 less serial no. than yours.
Be very interested in what Ricky say about it, colour etc.
Of course you can still get the original bridge, although not cheap, and with a bit of luck find a pick-up cover. Well worth the expense as it will bring it back to standard (less the dot inlays of course) and increase it's value. If you ever advertised it as it was I think a lot of people would be wary.
Mike.
Retired Radio and Electronics Engineer residing in Cambridgeshire.

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 08:18:21 PM »
Hi Repairman77,

Yes, it looks like the bridge has been replaced (see pics).  The "guts" look pretty good and well made.  There is some writing and a signature that I cannot totally decipher.  In the Pot cut out there is definitely the name "Tommy" to be read.  It reflects too much in this photo though. The Bridge pickup cover seems not to be original either.  It looks like the bridge and the pickup cover are from the same manufacturer because of the very identical metal.  Perhaps an update "kit"?

Also to be seen on the pics is a strange piece of wood nailed in the upper right hand where the bridge is mounted.  I can't figure out what it's purpose was or is.

Now to figure out the neck.  The truss rod looks quite original and like I know it as well but this would surely be easy to fake.

I'm very curious to what Ricky has to say about this as well.  Time will tell!

Best,
Dennis

Best,

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 08:44:29 PM »
By the way mrbass, yes it is a neck through.  Looking at the paint job closely I can't seem to tell if it was painted afterwards or if it is original.  The truss rod, however, is painted over.  I don't know if this is standard.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 08:47:36 PM by lordward »

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 09:05:05 PM »
So, I just got a reply from Ricky.  Richard wrote:

Hi Dennis,

It looks like it originally started out as a 4001 MG, but then was modified
heavily.

The bridge/tailpiece was changed out as well as the bridge pickup. The
finger board was also replaced and the front of the instrument was
refinished.

Does the instrument have dual truss rods? If it only has one truss rod it is
a fake.

Thank you,

Richard

So, there I have it.  Now I've got to figure out if it would be worth it to have this thing restored.  Anyone got any opinions?

Cheers,
Dennis

jules

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Rickenbacker 4001 project
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 12:11:59 AM »
yes, definately worth restoring. If you don't change back, you may find it harder to sell on one day, because people are scared of the fakes out there. Parts can be found - but as always shop around a bit, because i've seen them go at quite a range of prices.
 
The tuning keys look original. I have a set in my parts drawer. The ferrules are black plastic, and sort of convert the smaller diameter posts to fit a larger diameter hole. Quite similar to the ones Gibson were using at the same time, minus the ferrules.
 
Are you going to refinnish the refinnish?

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 07:40:55 AM »
Hi Dennis; Worth trying to get back to original condition and will probably be worth more when done than it is now, but not as much as a completely original bass.
Mike.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 07:49:08 AM by Repairman77 »
Retired Radio and Electronics Engineer residing in Cambridgeshire.

My 1975 4001, but....
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 09:21:33 AM »
Thanks guys, I'll be doing that then.... In time.  I've already had a look for some parts.  I got the bass quite cheap (700 Euros) so its worth it to put in a bit more.  I mainly just want to play it, not sell it.

Again, a big thanks to you all!

Dennis

 

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